I recently made a post on another forum that addressed a number of "axioms' concerning the KR Concept. Thought maybe someone here could benefit from the information:

Most KR rods end the reduction train with a KL5.5M. The other two reduction guides are very easy to remember if you just divide by 2. The 25 always goes with the 12 (well, it's almost half) and the 20 goes with a 10. If people could remember this one simple rule 95% of the KR questions would disappear. If you choose the 6 or 7 just position it to bullseye with the 25,12 or the 20,10 (notice I kept them inseparable).

Another "trick" - overall length of the reduction train has nothing to do with selecting the right guides. I work at my desk with 10-inch pieces of blank to look at the RELATIONSHIP between the guides based on height. If the heights space themselves properly when the bullseye is set up on a 10-inch piece of scrap, the reduction train is correct and can be any length it needs to be to choke the line down to a smooth run. Most efficient will be the shortest possible length to do the job.

With those two bits of info I can establish my guide train well in advance of the actual layout and be right 99% of the time.

If you order every CCKL-H FazLite guide (cheapest way) and set them up to bullseye on a stick, you will immediately see that they automatically space into groups. The 25, 20, and 16 will be close together, then there will be a gap and the 12, 10 and 8 will be close together and then the 7, 6 and 5.5 group at the end. The small guides (7, 6, 5.5 and even the 8) are available in Medium and Low heights to allow for funky spacing on the last guide before the runners. It's all very obvious. I will show people a 4-inch stick at trade shows with a 20,10, 5.5M that bullseye and try to explain that if it will bullseye at 4 inches it will bullseye at 4 feet. Their eyes glaze over.

Hmmm, so Jo = Jim. Good to know.

First let me say I am sorry for your loss. If you see my post on rotator cuff surgery you will see why I was unaware.

I suppose what still confuses me a bit is when one would want to use the KL8M and/or KL7L guides. In any case I'll assume one is using at least one KB followed by KT's out to the tip. Right?

Dang, ambulance ride is here....gotta run to PT.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Long rods, big knots, surf rods...the 7 and 8 are used in odd places, but they are used.

Yes, I’ve used the larger third reduction guide when transitioning to a larger runner size on longer rods with heavier line where the person does not want or can not use micro guides. Usually, I use a fourth KL guide as the choke guide like a KL7L or KL6L to smoothly transition to the KB/KT runners. I love the KR concept because it is extremely versatile and performs exceptionally well. In addition once you understand the concept it is easy to set up.
Norm

And as long as we are at it, tell me about the RV guide. Last I knew it was only offered in one size and was a bait caster stripper guide. Now it looks like it is for surf rods? Why not a high frame KW guide?

Lets say my goal is to build 7 foot spinning rods, using 20# mono, targeting fast running pelagics in the 20 - 100 pound range. Could be anything from King mackerel/wahoo to dolphin to sailfish. What would I be looking to use? Something like KL25H, KL12H, KL7M.....followed by a couple of KB's and then KT's the rest of the way out? Or does Fuji feel I'm in need of the KW series (I don't). BTW, casting performance wouldn't be particularly important.

Would matters change much if I dropped down to a reel that held 200-250 yards of PE 2.5 or 3? Say going from an 8000 to a 4000 reel.

Sometimes I feel like the offshore angler isn't considered a market worth building for. Plenty of reels but not many blanks and such compared to the bass/inshore market. Or maybe they just think all of us are stuck in the past?

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Sorry Russ, thought this thread dried up a while ago. KR Concept was never intended for heavy set-ups. It was originally introduced as a braid concept with limits around 30#. Beyond that, Fuji suggested defaulting back to the NGC. I think the surf market, and particularly lure casters in the surf, drove Fuji to consider a double foot KR guide that would bring a lighter top section to long rods. Because it's all about weight, the RV was introduced in Titanium and remains there. I'm not sure Fuji ever imagined that the theory behind KR was universal enough to be applied to just about any rod.

To answer your question, at 20# mono you are right on the borderline with a large spool. I would guess the KW edges out the RV at this point, but more and more builders are successfully applying KR principals to stand-up rods, surf rods and jigging rods every day. Limits will be determined by spool diameter and line lb. test. and that will be primarily about casting efficiency. With casting not being a primary concern I think you would be wise to experiment.

Thanks Jim.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.