I would just like to hear everyone's opinion of a comparison between the Titanium Torzite guides versus Titanium SiC.

"T" is more attractive.
Of course - more clearance.
Will performance be improved - who knows?????
But if you cant decide between a #20 or #16 with a S'C - using a #16 in T will be useful.

Personally - I will always go with the "T".
Herb

Torzite inner ring diameters are noticeably thinner than regular SIC but not so much the Slim SIC and if you're looking for top of the line either is a great choice . Torzite is slicker and lighter in weight with added crack resistance/durability, regular SIC has been known to be somewhat more brittle and hairline cracks, (especially when used as a tip top) are not all that uncommon due to it's extreme hardness rating.

This is from angler abuse of course and hard bumps/whacks from banging tip tops into things is the main culprit but they're as reliable as any other if those things are avoided . Running a cotton ball through the inner rings of guides will reveal hairline fractures not visible to the naked eye .


If you expect to see noticeable casting distance differences between say Alconite, Torzite, SIC or Hardloy you'll likely be disappointed as the real benefits of higher end rings only show themselves with long friction inducing drawn out battles with powerful fish where heat dissipation and line wear become a larger factor . IMO , it would be a better pick to choose titanium frarmed guides with a slightly less expensive ring than to to spend more on a ring and choose heavier guide frames but unfortunately Fuji doesn't allow you to choose titanium with say Alconite rings anymore so with titanium you got either SIC or Torzite.

Want to see more comparisons , the below link will educate you:


[ctsfishing.zendesk.com]

Nice work, Herb(s).

The Torzite rings are lighter than the SIC as well.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

The Alconite titanium guides were always my go to. Wish the TFAT tops were still available. Anyway, I always liked the TFAT tops as fly rod tops. It didn't look traditional but performs extremely well and I've not ever had 1 failure.

I notice there isn't a torzite F top? I wonder why.

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Torzite inner ring diameters are noticeably
> thinner than regular SIC but not so much the Slim
> SIC and if you're looking for top of the line
> either is a great choice . Torzite is slicker and
> lighter in weight with added crack
> resistance/durability, regular SIC has been known
> to be somewhat more brittle and hairline cracks,
> (especially when used as a tip top) are not all
> that uncommon due to it's extreme hardness
> rating.
>
> This is from angler abuse of course and hard
> bumps/whacks from banging tip tops into things is
> the main culprit but they're as reliable as any
> other if those things are avoided . Running a
> cotton ball through the inner rings of guides will
> reveal hairline fractures not visible to the naked
> eye .
>
>
> If you expect to see noticeable casting distance
> differences between say Alconite, Torzite, SIC or
> Hardloy you'll likely be disappointed as the real
> benefits of higher end rings only show themselves
> with long friction inducing drawn out battles with
> powerful fish where heat dissipation and line wear
> become a larger factor . IMO , it would be a
> better pick to choose titanium frarmed guides with
> a slightly less expensive ring than to to spend
> more on a ring and choose heavier guide frames but
> unfortunately Fuji doesn't allow you to choose
> titanium with say Alconite rings anymore so with
> titanium you got either SIC or Torzite.
>
> Want to see more comparisons , the below link will
> educate you:
>
>
> [ctsfishing.zendesk.com]
> 60000201176-Fuji-Torzite-guides-demonstration

Herb is right on about the material properties of the ring. Fuji most likely could not sell Torzite when Alconite was around in Titanium frames. Alconite is as light as Torzite but not as hard, at least light enough not to matter. Ring material is not that big of a deal as much as guide sizes and placement. The thing that affects the guide ring more than anything is how dirty the line is. The abrasion and friction from dirty line will wear into the ring faster, but even that will take many years. Titanium frames are really only needed for saltwater environments so if you exclusively fish fresh water you can straight up get by with SS Frames and Alconite rings. You can also do penatrant testing (Non Destructive Examination) on the rings to find cracks. This will usually find them when they are just beginning where cotton won't work. Basically it is the weight of SIC vs the weight of Torzite and it is so minimal it doesn't matter. REC guides are lighter and a lot more durable.

While titanium is a great choice for saltwater environments due to it's outstanding corrosion control properties i never chose titanium guides for for that reason , as a matter of fact corrosion control was at the bottom of the list as to why i find titanium framed guides so appealing . I am probably one of the few that don't care for the corrosion control frames Fuji introduced last year either as i find the regular polished stainless frames more visually appealing even at the same price point. I also never experienced those stainless frames rusting out on me but for anybody who rarely washes off their gear after use in the salt it's a very wise choice.

Would i opt for titanium framed guides on my freshwater rods , i myself don't think the cost is worth it for freshwater applications but for saltwater angling they offer two huge advantages instead of just one and thats their extreme lack of weight with corrosion control coming in a very distant second. Titanium frames matched up with the once available and very reasonably priced Alconite was a no brainer for many but as we know it's no longer available .

Slim SIC is very appealing to me but i have not seen it offered on the frame styles and sizes that i typically use , oddly the cost difference between SIC and Torzite varies widely , on some guides the cost can be a $30.00 per guide difference and on others it's a mere $8.00 . For example a KL-H 25 in SIC is $44.00 and Torzite is $54.00 , jump to RV frames and it's $98.00 for an RV 25 in Torzite to $69.00 for SIC .

As most know Torzite and SIC are at the very top in regard to guide ring materials but i feel obsessing about ring materials is a mistake because most will not be able to tell noticeable differences in everyday angling between guide ring materials so budget conscious anglers should not rule out even the lower cost Fazlite ceramic ring material , comes in a cool blue color also .

List Price comparison between a 9 guide plus tip set for a casting KR setup for freshwater or light inshore fishing with kW10, KW5.5, and KB/KT4.5 and matching tiptop.
Titanium Torzite = $113.61
Titanium Sic = $85.86
BC Alconite = $26.88
Fuji makes great guides, and all are sufficiently hard and durable for everyday hard fishing use. If you you have deep pockets and want the very best and lightest get the Torzite set. If you want the best bang for the buck get the Alconite set, and you can buy additional stuff with the savings.
Norm

Re Pricing on Fuji guides:
I pass on my discounts to anyone purchasing a CTS blank from me.
Regards,
Herb
U.S. Distributor - CTS blanks

Very nicely laid out Norm, and placing me solidly in the BC Alconite camp. Which I already knew lol.

And if you’re planning on a KR spinning rod. The list price comparisons between Titanium Torzite, Titanium Sic, and BC Aconite for a 9 guide set plus matching tip top containing KL20H, KL10H, KL5.5M, and KB/KT4.5 guides are as follows.
Titanium Torzite = $155.70
Titanium Sic = $116.93
BC Alconite = $32.07
Again they are all excellent guide sets, just depends on what you are willing to spend. However, you can buy an extra blank and maybe some other stuff with the savings.
Norm

Ouch, those big Ti framed spinning guides are pricey. Hey Jim, you think you could do us all a favor and talk to Fuji about making a Ti framed spinning guides with a cheaper ring material?

I have to admit if i had to pay full retail for the Titanium Torzites i couldn't do it because it's just too cost prohibitive , the only reason i was able to do it is because i managed to get the RV 25 and RV 16 for very close to half price during a one day sale by one of our sponsors. No way could i pay $ 97.99 for a RV 25 and $59.98 for an RV 16 .

Not uncommon for blanks to cost $200-$400, and reels $500-$1000+ It doesn't even make sense to put $25 set of guides on a rod like that.

But we do

Yes indeed , people do spend large sums of money on blanks and reels and then turn around and insist on buying the cheapest line they could find or super cheap terminal tackle . On my best outfits i always go with titanium frames because they're surf rods and the titanium frames make a noticeable difference in weight reduction , their corrosion resistance isn't a bad thing either although i never considered corrosion resistance as a deciding factor in my guide choices.

I had two CTS blanks i ordered from Herb L ready to build but i held off until i was able to afford the guides i had planned on using all along , it took awhile . As long as the person who will be using the rod is perfectly happy with the component choices then everything's good . Billy's right though , there's no question that some do put lower end guides on very expensive blanks and if thats what they want to do by all means enjoy, i'm sure they have their reasons , everybody's different .

One thing to keep in mind though , going with the absolute top of the line does not hurt when or IF you ever decide to sell your rod , buyers will pay more for a rod equipped with top shelf components .

For most freshwater and light inshore fishing the Alconite set of guides will perform and last just as well as the Titanium Torzite, and Sic sets. However, the titanium guides are corrosion proof, not corrosion resistant, and are lighter, but you pay a premium for these features. The guide rings on all of these guides are extremely hard, you can not cut, or even scratch, one sawing with a hacksaw blade or metal file. This is also true for the Fazlite ring. I have demonstrated this sawing of ceramic guides with a hacksaw blade to a number of friends wanting braid proof guides, I used a brand new $40 Torzite guide and much less expensive Alconite and Fazlite guides, not even a scratch on any of them. They were amazed. I have built rods using all four of these ring and frame types, and I still like the Alconite guides, even on my very high end rods, but that’s just me. Like I mention before if you want the best and are willing to pay for it, then go for it.
Another very good bang for the buck are the BC Fazlite guides.
BC Fazlite KR Casting set = $21.09
BC Fazlite KR Spinning set = $23.65
Norm,

Disagree about Alconite performing just as well as Torzite , people might think it does and convince themselves that it does but make no mistake that is not the case .

Torzite is clearly a more advanced ring material and Fuji's videos have clearly shown performance advantages between these guide rings . As good as SIC is Torzite is more slippery and it's the most polished & slippery ring material i have ever experienced , the only guide ring ceramic's i have ever fished was Alconite and SIC and i can tell you with certainty that Torzite is a higher performing ring .

Is it worth the extra money , to some people absolutely but to others not at all , i think most anglers are very aware that guide ring ceramics are ridiculously tough and will not scratch if rubbing a file back and forth on them but that doesn't tell you much , i don't think anybody looking to buy guides thinks " Well none of these ring materials scratch when i rub a file back and forth on them so all these ring materials will perform the same " i think most in the rod building game know that the differences go deeper than just how scratch resistant they are.

As i said in a previous post , Titanium is corrosion resistant NOT corrosion proof .


Bottom line , fish whatever you want and believe whatever you want , as long as it makes the individual happy it's all good.

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As i said in a previous post , Titanium is
> corrosion resistant NOT corrosion proof .
>


Maybe after 40 years in a salt mine, or fished at the center of the sun, the titanium may oxidize a bit, but for all practical purposes, Fuji titanium guides do not show corrosion even after 5 years or more of normal salt water use. Same goes for the REC titanium-Nickel material.

I would love to try a set of Torzite guides, and maybe I will on a 10 wt salt water set up. But it will be hard to spend that kind of $$, when I know from experience that even Fuji stainless holds up extremely well with normal care. BTW-thanks for the reality of the cost analysis and the counter point of relative expenses!

I just built a couple of salt water 9 wts and used a titanium-SiC tip, REC snakes, and the new corrosion control Alconites for the strippers. It will be interesting to see how they hold up.

As I mentioned, for most inshore and freshwater fishing I do, Alconite performs as well as Torzite, and I stick by that comment. I don’t fish for giant hard fighting fish. The hack saw demonstration was to demonstrate that all were very hard and capable of holding up to braid, nothing more nothing less. I have fished with rods having all of these various ring types, and I was underwhelmed by the enhanced performance of Torzite I thought I would get over Alconite, I guess I was expecting a lot more for the differences in price. If it cast any further or handled fish any better it was not by much, if any. I guess I’m one of those skeptics that doesn’t mind spending money to try things, but I also don’t like to waste money on things that I don’t need. In my opinion, Torzite is overkill for the fishing I do, but may not be for the fishing others do. I do concede that Torzite guides are really the best, just don’t think they are worth the excess cost unless you really want the best. That my honest opinion, and pertains only to me and the type of fishing I do.
Norm