When I was at the Expo this past February, I bought a CTS fly rod and some Crystal Coat rod finish to try. Even though it has the same name, it is not the crystal coat finish once sold by Clemens. The CTS Crystal Coat is a two part finish that is absolutely water clear without any hint of yellowing, and it is supposed to stay water clear. Because this is a very new product that most of you have not heard of it before, I thought I would give my impressions of this finish.

It is a very thin finish that is recommended to be mixed at a ratio of 4 parts Resin : 3 parts Hardener by WEIGHT. Supposedly it is very forgiving of weighing errors, as it’s advertised that the ratio can vary from 4:2.7 to 4:3.3 with out problems, the more hardener the harder the final cure. The first time I used this product I mixed 2 grams of resin with 1.5 grams of hardener, and mixed it very well in an aluminum mixing cup a room temperature about 70 degrees. I applied it while turning, exactly the same way as I would for any other finish. It covered surprisingly well for such a thin mixture. This finish has a longer pot life than any finish I have ever used. Although I only finished one rod, there is no doubt in my mind one could do numerous rods with a single batch. Because of it thinness it was absolutely bubble free. However, the long pot life also meant it had a very long cure time. It took 2 days to get a nail hard finish.

I know most people would rather measure the Resin and Hardener by volume rather than weight. So I weighed a given volume of each part and found that the Resin weighed 1.1 grams/ml and the Hardener weighed 1gram/ml. So if using 3 ml syringes, to get the proper 4R:3H weight to weight ratio you need 3ml Resin: 2.5ml Hardener or 2ml Resin : 1.65 ml Hardener.
The second time I used Crystal Coat a measured 2 ml Resin : 1.7 ml Hardener and got the same excellent results as the first time.

I placed both of the aluminum mixing cups I used in sunlight, and they have been there for almost a month, and they are still crystal clear with absolutely no yellowing. So if you want a non-yellowing two part finish this is an excellent choice. The only disadvantage I can think of is its long cure rate. Otherwise it is an excellent finish.

Norm

I spoke with Stephen about this finish at the Expo. Mixing by volume is easier for most people and syringes certainly cost less than a scale. However, there is a volume ratio available (I don't remember exactly what he told me and your figures above may be it) although it is not 1 to 1. Shouldn't be hard to figure out.

It is very clear although very thin, so multiple coats will likely be necessary for most people. Should be an interesting new finishing product for builders to try in 2019.

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Sounds great but that exceedingly long cure time and the likelihood of needing multiple coats kills it's appeal to me but for others it may be exactly what they're looking for.

As I mentioned it covered very well with just one coat. I was really surprised with how well it covered and leveled, I was expecting to use multiple coats, but got excellent coverage with just one coat. However, it could be user dependent.

Norm

is any one of our sponsors selling it in US?

anglers workshop in their lure crafting section sells an epoxy topcoat for painting lures hence the longer curing time..it is thin like paint..sounds like the same stuff with a different name...it,s a one to one mix, simpler to work with..it is durable since it,s for lures..i have used on rod wraps with no problems but not as tough as permagloss.

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anglers workshop in their lure crafting section
> sells an epoxy topcoat for painting lures hence
> the longer curing time..it is thin like
> paint..sounds like the same stuff with a different
> name...it,s a one to one mix, simpler to work
> with..it is durable since it,s for lures..i have
> used on rod wraps with no problems but not as
> tough as permagloss.


The AW product is a good one, but not at all the same stuff as what CTS is now offering.

........

Sounds like a pain with the odd ratios. What makes it any better than what is already available?

Drew

It doesn't yellow over time.

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The major advantage to Crystal Coat is that it is absolutely water clear and does not yellow. I can see this being an advantage for people that like to use white or light colored blanks, or do light colored wraps. Might also be of use to people who do decorative wraps or weaves to maintain that fresh wrapped appearance. May also be of benefit for maintaining the look of decals over time. Also this finish releases bubbles and levels extremely well, giving you a very good looking finish.

For the most part if you like the finish you are using then keep on using it. I did not do this post to convert anyone to this product, I did it to inform people that there is a new product out there that has unique characteristics, which are quite different from any of the traditional finish epoxies currently being used.
Norm

To answer Steve Gardener’s question. I don’t know of anyone in the US is selling this product. You can certainly order it from CTS, but I’m sure this will add to the cost. Herb Ladenheim is the US distributor of CTS products, I would think that he would be able to supply this product to anyone who might want to try it. Maybe Herb will respond to this question and give us more direct information concerning availability.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2019 10:58AM by Norman Miller.

Norman,
Yet again you have taken the time and effort to help all of us with your testing and weight-to-volume calculations for the new Crystal Coat from CTS. THANKS!
I am very interested in trying it. Thin = good as I prefer to apply a minimum coat of finish on my trout rods to minimize weight. Thin probably penetrates the wraps quicker and better as well. Good bubble release = good for obvious reasons. Good coverage = good when a thicker finish is required or preferred. “Water clear” and non-yellowing = good although one month left out in the sun may not indicate its appearance after one year. If it does not yellow in time, it would be a rare epoxy find and my “good” rating would change to “exceptionally good”. However, I expect epoxies to yellow to some degree and simply consider it to be the nature of the beast. Longer cure time = OK as I am use to ProKote regular which may set in one day but requires two days to cure, three of four to really cure. Measure by weight rather than by volume = OK as I already have an adequate scale for use with my composite fabrication. I can appreciate that rod builders are accustomed to syringes and rightfully so. Syringes measure small amounts quite accurately, are simple to use and I use and like them as well. The mix ratio of typical thread epoxy (1 / 1) verses Crystal Coat (4 / 3) and typical structural epoxy (approximately 4 / 1) suggests the Crystal Coat may combine and utilize the attributes of both the others but I am only speculating.
Herb L., I gotta have it!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

HERB,

Bring it in please!!!

Hi all,
I just saw this.
Been traveling for a few days. On Cape Cod now for months of May and june chasing Striped Bass with a fly rod on the outer beaches. Today was my forst day of fishing. Nothing - except there were huge flocks of gannets diving on - I assume - bait. Don't know what was under the bait - Blue fish??? Bass????

Anyway - the Crystal Coat:
CTS sent all buyers of a CTS blank during the month of March a complimentary sample kit of the finish.
I received a bulk CTS order for my customers and there was a kit for each blank.
I distributed some until I tried it myself. IMO the samples I received were faulty somehow - and the samples sent to a few customers had same issues. So I stopped shipping.
I didn't wait for 2 days to strip the uncured finish off my wrap. It was still uncured after 16 hours - IN FLORIDA.
Another customer up north raise his heat to 82 degrees. After 2 days it was still not PROPERLY cured.
In discussion with CTS - they are not experiencing the same issue - although "it was from the same batch".

My understanding is that CTS does not expect a builder to wait multiple days for the finish to cure, Of course it levels extremely well - anything would with a lengthy pot time.

I'll come back with a report after I learn more.
Herb

Herb, thanks for replying. I was initially concerned that after 24 hrs the finish was still a little soft, I thought I had done something wrong. However, on day two it was rock hard, beautifully clear, bubble free and level. The second time I tried it exactly the same results. I have also used it on a few more occasions with no complaints, except for the long cure rate. The odd mixing ratio is not really a distraction for me since I know the mixing ratios works and the product is quite tolerant of mixing errors. I really think that for people that want a non yellowing finish this is an excellent product.
I just noticed in the most recent CTS description of Crystal Coat they give a recommended volume : volume ratio of 3R:2H which is different from my ratio of 3R:2.5H based on my weight to volume measurements. By my calculations their 3:2 ratio is low on the Hardener side and would result in a much softer finish.
Herb when you measured the Crystal Coat components for mixing did you measure by weight or volume? If you measured by volume do me a favor and measure by my volume: volume ratio and see what you get, or use the CTS recommended weight : weight ratio. I don’t think I would trust the CTS volume : volume ratio, just to low on the Hardener side, in my opinion. Thanks!
Norm

I have to wonder if some are mixing it 1 to 1 due to their habit of doing so with all other popular epoxy wrap finishes. I received some at the Expo and have not had any problems with long set and/or cure times.


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Hello Tom.

Wouldn't a 1 to1 mix make it harden faster and more brittle?

I miss Ralph.

Once you get it figured out I will probably give it a try.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Tom, I sometimes get a little impatient with slow cure times basically because I want the rod done and out. One of the reasons I switched to ThreadMaster, very short cure time. However, I now have to admit that patience is a virtue. The Crystal Coat finish is superb, and is worth the wait. The finish is hard enough after 24 hrs for a second coat, this wait time is the same for most other epoxy finishes.
Norm

i have enough problems with 1 to 1 mixes..i don,t want to think about 3 to 4..lol. may be they should think about the premeasured packages like pac bay sells..

I also prefer 1 to 1 mixes because how can anybody possibly screw up getting a 1 to 1 mix wrong right .........well i have actually found that all my bottles of Threadmaster when comparing the levels it shows i use more resin than hardener for some reason . I have used premeasured syringes also but no change .
Thank God Threadmaster is exceptionally forgiving and despite what i have noticed the finish has always leveled beautifully , cured beautifully and left me with stunning looking guide wraps .


Some say the Crystal coat is very forgiving also and i would be interested in hearing how the product appears after two full seasons in direct sunlight instead of a month in regards to yellowing .