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Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Rick Sankey (---.dsl.netins.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 02:35PM

Hey guys I have a new problem to me.
I spent yesterday spinning up a rod and got my 1st coat of Flex Coat on it yesterday. I put on my 2nd coat on today and for some reason I have fish eyes in the finish on the handle end no where else. This also has a label on it. No fish eyes yesterday but have them today. I tried to brush it out and they came back after awhile in the drying mode. I used my alcohol burner on it while it spun in the drying mode but finally had to step away. As it has turned more have shown up.
Anyone run into this before and what will my solution be to get this rod to a standard that I am proud to sell it. I've not run into anything thus far in my rod building life that I have not been able to save. I'm sure this will be no different. My thoughts are if I just refinish it tomorrow it will follow all of the low spots the fish eye has created.
Help
Rick

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: April 28, 2019 03:53PM

Some kind of contamination is causing the fish eyes. Since they weren't present in your first coat, it must have gotten contaminated between coats.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 04:55PM

David is correct; somehow a contaminate found its way onto the first coat of finish.

And you are correct the problem can be solved, but it will not be as easy as you think. Once you've gotten rid of the contaminate, applying another epoxy coat will NOT result in a level finish but will instead both fill in the valleys and make the hills higher.

The fix, and again after identifying and eliminating the contaminate, is to apply at least 1 epoxy coat, then carefully, very carefully, sand down the "hills" to be level with the "valleys", and finally apply a final finish coat of epoxy. It's tedious, time consuming, and more than a little frustrating but it can be done.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Rick Sankey (---.dsl.netins.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 05:46PM

I'm not sure where the contamination came from as I sealed it yesterday and then again this morning. All in the same area. Nothing changed other than the day but for sure something did. What are the recommendations on sand paper to use? Could I use a fine sand paper and leave it in the power wrapper to do it?

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: April 28, 2019 06:24PM

What work area did you apply the finish. If it was the garage and the car was running for a moment the exhaust fumes would be a possible cause.

You would be surprised how much airborne contamination there is, aerosols,dust etc.

Applying finish should be performed in a dedicated area even if it is temporary.

Have Fun

John

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Rick Sankey (---.dsl.netins.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 07:02PM

It was in my basement.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Rick Sankey (---.dsl.netins.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 07:27PM

The only thing I can think of is my bathroom exhaust fan goes into a crawl space in the basement. Old house that must be what did it. Man has to spray after taking a #2 or the wife not not HAPPY!!!!
HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 08:13PM

The happy wife do any dusting in the basement or bath using a spray such as Pledge? Got a washer and dryer in the basement and if so do you use dryer sheets? Both Pledge and the antri-static dryer sheets are potential sources of silicone - really bad. Do you wash your hands immediately before starting to do finish work or touching an unfinished rod?

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: April 28, 2019 08:25PM

Silicone contamination results in dozens and dozens of tiny fish-eyes, not just a few areas or large portions where the finish is being repelled.

....................

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Rick Sankey (---.dsl.netins.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 08:46PM

No washer and dryer down stairs. Our basement is not one you spend any time in. Just my rod building area and storage. So nothing the wife would have done. And YES I do wash my hands. This is a 1st and I hope the last as I kicked A on getting this rod done this weekend. VERY disappointed but will make it right before I am done. I have very high standards and will not let it go until it meets them.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Paul Darby (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 09:36PM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2019 11:15PM by Paul Darby.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: April 28, 2019 10:00PM

Never use a solvent wipe as the last step in surface preparation. Believe it or not, but that creates more problems than it cures. See the online library article on Water-Break-Free surfaces.

..............

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 10:06PM

Get yourself some 2500 grit wet or dry and cut it into 1" stripes. Hold the rod staple somehow and use the sand paper like you are polishing a shoe with a rag.
Herb

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Scott Kelly (---.sub-174-197-8.myvzw.com)
Date: April 28, 2019 10:42PM

Just curious if Threadmasters “One” one part finish would be a good solution? Or permagloss? I haven’t personally had fish eyes, just curious if a non- 2 part epoxy finish would work. I understand the part about still needing to sand after to get back to level, just wonder if those finishes would cover the contaminate.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Paul Darby (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 10:57PM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2019 08:00PM by Paul Darby.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: April 28, 2019 11:17PM

Paul,
Please don't suggest using denatured alcohol and another coat. So many problem happen as a result of putting on alcohol between coats.

But, in about 99.9% of the cases of fish eye are caused by contamination of some sort between coats.

Likely the best solution is to go over the surface with very fine sand paper and then take it off with low tack masking tape.

Sometimes tough to figure out the best thing to do for these cases.

Best of luck

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: April 29, 2019 01:58AM

Ive run into this problem almost every time up until recently..

This is what ive done.. And both solutions worked extremly well for me..

First off im a gear cutter, so what that means is im covered in about 7 diffrent types of oil and coolant day in and day out.. Really its a pain in the butt..for example.. Want a drink from the vending machine? Grab your wallet... You can shower, wash your hands, doesnt matter... Your wallet has oil in the leather now.. Touch it, then build.. @#$%&..

Permagloss worked for me.. Ive tried it once.. Has a nightmare on my hands... Sanded the epoxy smooth.. And mind you this was after 4 coats.. Lightly sanding between 2 and 3, so it took a very long time.. And becouse i was on a deadline i went through the grades from 320 up to 3000... Glossed it after removing ALL dust.. Came out beautiful..

What i do now when i run into that situation, wich another builder suggested, after the first coat is completly cured.. I wait atleast 24hrs. lightly scuff the entire area in question, as in the entire area that has epoxy, fish eyes or not.. Think of the scratchs as help with bonding... i use a scotch brite brillo pad. The little scratchs are hidden with the epoxy, if your not sure.. Sand with a high grit just for piece of mind.. Go to your sink, give the rod a bath with dawn dish soap.. Rinse throughly with warm water, Dry, place the rod on your dryer, let it sit for a couple of minutes to be 100% its completly dry, apply the epoxy.... Works extremly well..

I just powered out 4 rods in a week 3 needing 2 coats.. And i can only accommodate 1 rod in my station at a time.. Wrap in the morning, spin while at work, check after work, clean, spin while sleeping.. Wrap in the morning (multiple rods in that rotation for 24 hr. Cure time)

I dont know if this is the proper way, or non-conformant, but s i said, works for me..

If the epoxy band is greater then 2 inchs, i usually need to take the above approach.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Paul Darby (---.pn.at.cox.net)
Date: April 29, 2019 02:24AM

Your wish is granted.

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Rick Sankey (---.dsl.netins.net)
Date: April 29, 2019 04:42PM

Anthony being you seemed to have run into this a lot I'm going to go with you 2nd one. I will sand it down and rinse it off. Then recoat it. I will let you all know how it comes out but plan on letting it sit a another day before I work on it.
But also want to thank everyone who responded to my cry for help.
Rick

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Re: Fish Eyes in finish
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.sub-174-201-25.myvzw.com)
Date: April 29, 2019 06:26PM

Let it dry, and epoxy Right away.. If it is some form of air born contamanent last thing you want is to let the rod sit.. Dont sand too deep... You get some thread fuzz, and wash it, i cant tell you long it will take to dry.. Thread is like a wick.. Best of luck

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