It wasn’t until starting to build rods that I learned a fishing rod / blank was never designed or should ever be flexed more than 90* over its entire length, especially held mid section and the tip flexed. With my experience and understanding of composites, this certainly seems appropriate, if not a bit over-cautious, but especially with CF. We have all been guilty of over stressing a rod under numerous conditions such as landing that big boy into the boat. While the rod may have appeared to be OK, it is very possible some of the fibers were compromised when over flexed and if repeatedly over flexed may cause eventual ultimate failure.
Does this hold true for fly rods as well? I consistently see more fly rods flexed well past 90* than any other type of rods. Case in point is the picture on a CTS advertisement showing a fly rod flexed almost 180*! While I realize fly rods are different from the others, can someone please enlighten me?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

A rod blank is a rod blank. The reason you often see fly rods flexed so deeply is due to their general length - upon landing a fish, the angler often points the rod blank to the sky and then reels the fish up close. This action results in the tip of the rod having to flex all the way to 180 degrees. It's deadly with bamboo and not helpful in carbon. It's bad fish landing technique and does indeed result in many broken rods.

.............

here: [www.rodbuilding.org] is a display of a blank being stressed with a gallon jug of water that looks like 180 degrees.

Thank you, Tom. While certainly not questioning your vast knowledge, I hope others will offer their insight in general, blank manufacturers in particular. It is possible by replying, concerned blank manufacturers could minimize their number of broken rod replacements. While the number of rods I have sold may pale in comparison to many of you veteran builders, let alone blank manufacturers, I have yet to eat the cost of replacing a broken rod, possibly due to instructing my customers of proper rod handling. Actually, virtually all were unaware of the “90* Limit” just as I was.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

There is no magic degree limit, just good practice. If you want a rod that can flex into a circle get a cheap low modulus one. Fiberglass seems particularly good for this.

If you keep the flex out of the tip with any rod, it likely will not break. But the tip can break on any rod, so don't lift the rod too high!

It's been my experience that the highest performance blanks, are also the least tolerant of bad technique. Especially with fly rods.

Gary,
Thank you for the great, if not disturbing video. I also cringed. None of us rod builders should ever allow one of our customers to see that video! That blank must have been made of wheat fiber, as in noodle.
Drew,
I think you are point-on and agree with every point you made. None the less, I am still scratching my head after viewing the video posted by Gary. That rod must have been 98% Aramid as even E or S glass would not withstand that punishment let alone CF which would have exploded long before. Maybe it was constructed of unobtainium!
I remain hopeful at least a few heavy-hitting manufacturers or suppliers will chime-in to enlighten the rest of us!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

A good example of a full flexing rod is TENKARA! My 13' 6" Tenkara will flex tip to butt end very easily, and yet I have landed trout weighing up to 1lb with it. I do not know the composition.

Thanks, Phil. Are you talking about a fishing rod or a shoe lace? Gary’s video and your description of a rod have me totally baffled as to the limit a rod or blank should be flexed.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

if it,s long enough or thin enough will not a rod of any material bend tip to but?

One of the major causes of rod breakage is "high sticking." This not only tends to bend the rod past 90 degrees, but causes a bow-string effect between the guides. This is typically why high sticking causes a rod to break.

The point about not bending a rod past 90 degrees lies in the fact that once you have flexed it beyond that point you are not applying any additional pressure to the fish. It's bad fish fighting technique.

..................

Any material wil break once the elastic (yield point) is reached. It is experience that allows us to work the rod within these limits.

Have fun

John

First and foremost, I appreciate the responses. Secondly, and possibly of more concern, I am very disappointed that not a single blank manufacture has responded to afford us with their vast knowledge on the subject. We can only speculate as to why.
Ben’s reply / question is one of which prompted my original post. While basically agreeing with Tom’s statement, pressure on the fish will still increase past the rod being flexed past 90* but to a proportionally lower degree.
None the less, I will continual to practice and preach the”90* Rule” until proven incorrect or otherwise. If nothing else, it provides an easy reference point and margin for error for those who may be less experienced.
I’m still scratching my head over Gary’s video.
Come on, heavy hitters! Help us out!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Rodgeeks XC 731 flexing way more than it should [scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net]

Thanks, Billy. My head is going to start bleeding from all the scratching!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

A lot of good information is in this thread, so there isn't too much to add that isn't already covered. But here are a couple points:

1) The vast majority of rod breakage is from user error of some sort. I believe Tom Kirkman did a great study on this.

2) High sticking is a common cause of breakage. For most rods doing most types of fishing, the 90 degree limit is a smart rule of thumb. A fiberglass or moderate/slow action rod can handle more, but it's better to be conservative with these things when instructing people on rod care. Bending a carbon fiber Extra Fast blank more than 90 degrees can be asking for trouble though.

3) If a rod was fine for years, and then "all of a sudden" breaks on a cast, it likely incurred damage. Modern blank materials shouldn't fatigue over time if properly taken care of. The break may have happened on the 3471st cast, but the damage was done when the rod was accidentally stepped on while laying on the deck of the boat.

4) An interesting industry observation: custom rods seem to be better treated than factory rods. If someone pays a lot for a rod they seem to be more careful with it.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.