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Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Jonathan Hotham (---.sub-174-230-21.myvzw.com)
Date: April 10, 2019 11:13AM

Gentlemen,

I am going to build an ultra light backpacking rod for a co-worker. It's going to be a 4 piece 5'6" rodgeeks and I intend to use Pacbay Minima titanium M guides. Other ultralights I've built used 16-8-5 reduction guides. However for this rod I want it as low profile as possible. It will utilize a 500 series spinning reel 4 or 6lb mono.

What minima match reduction guide sizes has anyone had starting below 16 ? I am planning on using 4mm model F running guides. Maybe 12-6-4??

Thanks!

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: April 10, 2019 11:52AM

Use a 10-6-4

Or, you could just forget about using the first guide and just put the first #6 guide as 3 feet down the rod.

Build it that way and give it a couple of test casts. You won't have a lot of rod bend in the first two feet, and you could try building the rod without the first guide and see how it goes. With that light line the line should be calmed down by the time it gets 3 feet down the rod.

Let us know what you decide.

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 10, 2019 12:52PM

12M, 6M, and 4M will work, I have tried it before. Have not tried 10, 6, 4. So not sure about that set up. The Minima guides are cheap enough to allow for some experimenting.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2019 01:23PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Bob McKamey (---.se.biz.rr.com)
Date: April 10, 2019 01:11PM

If the completed rod will be stored inside a carry tube/case, you may want to consider the height of the guides

Bob McKamey
Mud Hole Custom Tackle
bobm@mudhole.com

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 10, 2019 01:30PM

The Minima 12M and16M are similar in height to 20V and 16V guides, respectively.
Norm

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Jonathan Hotham (---.sub-174-230-21.myvzw.com)
Date: April 10, 2019 02:23PM

Bob McKamey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the completed rod will be stored inside a carry
> tube/case, you may want to consider the height of
> the guides


Bob, that is exactly why I started this thread. I want to go as short as I can without sacrificing performance.

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: April 10, 2019 04:44PM

Wow, a 4 piece five foot six inch rod lol, you can probably fit that into your pants front pocket .

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Jonathan Hotham (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: April 10, 2019 07:21PM

I was asked for "the lightest most compact" custom rod I could build. I think it's a fun challenge, I offered a fly rod with a loose balsa wood bobbin to hold line instead of a reel.l, but this guy is far from a fly fishermen.

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (71.147.59.---)
Date: April 10, 2019 08:06PM

Jonathan,
I recently built a 6-piece, 7ft pack rod to achieve the same broken-down length of about 16in. using my comfortable high-frame 16-8-5.5 guide recipe as usual. While realizing it probably would not actually be used while backpacking, a storage/transportation plastic tube needs to be a minimum of 2in ID to accommodate the 16-H stripper. Utilizing a size 10 for the stripper could reduce the tube size by .50in. I am very interested to learn the results of your experiments with smaller reduction guides and will conduct my own as well. Both Roger and Norman are seasoned (not of the salty kind) veterans and I hold their opinions in high esteem. Norman has already tried 12-6-4 without any apparent issues. While Roger’s 10-6-4 may seem extreme, he is very versed in rod building to say the least. It is worth a try even if a 10-6-4 spinning rod might look like an upside-down casting rod lol!!! Let’s stay in touch.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: April 10, 2019 09:40PM

I would start with the 12.

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2019 11:57AM

Johnathan,

Since this is a relatively short rod, you could just forget about the first couple of guides and start with a #6 guide 1/2 way between the reel seat and then go with #4s or #3s to the tip with about 3 guides.

Since you are using light line, I would guess that this setup would work just fine. If you find that the line is not calmed down when it gets to the first guide midway down the rod, you could put a # 10 at about 25 inches from the face of the reel seat.

Since this is a spinning rod, you don't need a lot of guides on it, because if there is added space between the line bringing in a fish it will not really affect anything.

Remember, this is a pack rod and you want light weight.

So, if you happen to get a big fish where you get a lot of rod bend, just point the rod straight toward the fish and use your elbow to pull the fish into the boat while you reel.

I have been with some fellows who happened to hook some pretty big fish on ultra light rods and used the rod straight at the fish to bring it to the net. No issue.

Good luck

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Jonathan Hotham (199.247.44.---)
Date: April 11, 2019 12:39PM

Thanks roger, I will definitely try both ways mentioned. My only concern is the co-worker in mention is not a seasoned fishermen. Instead he is a hiker/backpacker looking to add another gadget to his arsenal. So whichever method I choose has to be compatible with potentially poor casting technique. I will have to put effort into testing these guide configurations with multiple and even improper techniques before I call it good. I am thinking I'll buy 12,10,6 Match guides and try all of the above configurations.

I definitely agree and understand the big fish on light tackle point. Last year I caught a 8.5lb~ river redhorse sucker in a quick moving river on a 4'5" rod. My wife and I literally went swimming chasing this thing around this river bend. It was top 3 fights of my life so far, and I had a 200lb~ lemon shark on for 45 minutes in December! I am already planning to sit down with this gentlemen for a few minutes and stress the importance of "angling" and proper rod usage technique before I set him on his way. He and I would both be quite disappointed if he snaps this thing like a twig on the first river small mouth he hooks into.

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2019 04:57PM

Johnathan,
As important as anything else is to avoid high sticking and to make sure that the drag is set correctly. Have the drag set well below the breaking strength of the line.

The reason that I suggested going to smaller guides even with no match guides at all is because the rod is a back packing guides. If you go no larger than a size 10 sv guide you can go with a pretty small tube for back packing.

Remember, line loops can touch the line on a cast without necessarily detracting very much on the casting length or accuracy.


Be safe

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 11, 2019 08:31PM

You want a good compromise between packability vs functionality. Going too small will hurt functionally, too large will affect packability. I think a size 12M stripper is a good compromise.
Norm

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Re: Minima reduction guides for backpacking rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (71.147.59.---)
Date: April 12, 2019 04:13PM

If he is a serious backpacker, he will not use a tube to save weight. As long the rod is in a sock and packed well within the backpack, he will be fine.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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