I stopped by the Bass Pro Shop in Atlantic City last night to pick up a light for my one boat, and as I walked through the fishing section I spotted a rod/reel combo that had Cabela's / Bass Pro's version of the KR Concept. The rod was a Fish Eagle spinning rod (I take it that it is their house brand) and it had a guide train and micros that mimicked the KR Concept. It looks like even the mass produced rods are getting better. Any bets on whether or not Ugly Stik will do the same? LOL!!

The KR Concept is what I always go to on my spinning rods. I love it. No more funny looking spinning rods that don't cast!

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

Are KR concept guides significantly different from other brand name guides, and if so, how? Do KR guides provide better performance on all types (casting, spinning, fly rods) and all sizes of rods, from ultra light to big game rods? I appreciate reports of product excellence but the benefits as well as the devil is in the details.

The significant thing about the use of the KR concept is the slant on the guide. As a result, the occurrence of wind knots and tangles is much reduced when using limp line like braid.

Best wishes

In the past, I had identical M spinning rods set up with cone of flight, NGC guides Microwave guides, and KR guides. So someone wanting to test cast each could, and then choose the guide train they liked. KR was the predominant choice followed, not so closely, by Microwave and NGC. Distances were similar, with a slight edge going to the KRs. However, the different guide trains gave each rod a different feel, The KR rod felt crisper and more responsive, and was smoother casting. The Cone of flight and NGC rods, felt sloppy and less responsive. I believe that was due to more weight in the tip section, because of larger runners being used. I know feel is a very subjective term, but it can’t be dismissed.
I tried the KR concept almost immediately when they first came out, and liked it so much I rarely use anything else. But that just me.
Norm

Roger, the slant is the tip of the iceberg...

Here's a review of the K-Series line-up. It helps to know where and how KR fits into the whole family of guides.

[anglersresource.net]

The ONLY thing that has attracted me to the KR concept guides is the height advantages offered in smaller ring sizes , all K guides have a slant to prevent line wraps which is completely different than "Wind knots" . Wind Knots are due to angler, spinning reel retrieving and line spooling errors and some spinners are known for being especially troublesome in that regard , i have owned a few .

Jim Ising x 2. Read the whole story. It's more than just today, casting your rod for the first time.

I have to guess that KR guides are recommended for fly rods, spin rods, AND casing rods since they all use braided lines? Are they interchangeable or are there KR guides devoted to each type of rod? Are KR guides more important for distance or for accuracy, for salt water or for fresh water? Have rods with KR guides been used to win any distance casting contests? I like the idea of reduced tangles.

Joe,
Rightfully so as the KR Concept is the optimum guide layout for all but the heaviest class rods. I am sorry to step on your post but Jim Isling needs to be commended here.
Thanks Jim for clarifying what may have been misunderstood previously. I consider myself lucky to only have started building rods 4 years ago so as not to have been possibly confused with the transition from COF-to NGC-to-KR Concept. Norman Miller explained it to me early on and I have never looked back. The only issue I have with Fuji is not offering a ringless, K series guide for the optimum in weight reduction. I have gotten over Fuji discontinuing offering Alonite in their titanium frames but am forced to use PacBay M and F guides when weight is of main concern. None the less, I habitually use a LGAT on the lighter builds!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

The KR Concept is the real deal. And yes they are even on the Bass Pro Shops top of the line Johnny Morris rods but that doesn't mean that they are the right setup. I had a client bring me a Johnny Morris for a tip repair that had the KR guides on it.. I asked him what size reel was he using, his response was a Shimano 2500 why ? I said because the rod is set up wrong for your size reel. So I went online to Angler's Resource to the KR GPS and plugged in his rod specifications and it came back that the rod was to use a 5000 series reel not a 2500. Will it work ....sure. When I showed him one of mine which the proper size guides for that length rod he was amazed.

I guess it is a step on the right direction and I can fully understand why BPS used the larger is because people would complain if it didn't cast well and they have no way of knowing what will be used, be nice if they had a tag on the rod with the suggested reel size for it.

Quiet Tom, that’s why we rod builders make the big bucks lol !!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Most know very well that factory rods that had the NGC tag swinging off a guide frame were not built following the NGC method at all , all you would have to do is sight down the blank to see the guide layout didn't result in a bullseye . Even knowing many different reel sizes will be used the NGC should still bullseye but if light braid is used most won't complain because it works very well even with poorly laid out rods.


I would bet that factory rods using the KR concept DO NOT utilize the most recommended pairings either but thats just a guess , they probably will shy away from the smallest recommended guides for fear of people thinking they look too small lol.

Factory rod manufacturers face a dilemma in that they have no control over the size and type of reels and lines the customer will use with their rods. Thus, they are forced to use a guide train that performs well, but probably not optimally, with most reels and lines. The ability to optimize a guide train to the reel and line being used is just another thing that makes a custom rod custom. In my opinion the KR concept is the best way to optimize the performance of a rod, and it’s not that difficult to do once you understand the concept. To quote Jim Ising “It’s not rocket science”.
Norm

I wanted to answer Phil's question from the post above.

Yes. ;)

Fuji introduced KR as a "braid concept" which we (rod builders) translated to micro guides in the US. All the original literature pointed toward the "average" freshwater rod with leanings toward smaller reels and ultralight set-ups. Not too long after the introduction, the surf guys in the northeast started experimenting with it and blew the original limits out of the water. They were building 12 and 13-foot rods with size 25 KL-H strippers. "It won't work", the COF boys screamed. Even some NGC fans were skeptical. But it did work. Then it worked in South Africa, and Hawaii, and Alaska - and it worked in the surf and offshore and for tuna and for snapper and it worked with braid and it worked with mono and fluorocarbon...and it even worked for Norm's little crappie!

The limits keep getting pushed - and there ARE limits to KR Concept. But those limits are way further out there than Fuji ever thought.

Building a KR Concept rod is VERY easy. There is only ONE guide style - the high frame, small ring KL-H - used in the reduction train. The rest of the rod uses the exact same K-series guide most of you have been using for 10 years. You can master this concept in 10 minutes, 8 minutes if you understand NGC.

Yep, once I used it I never looked back. The KR concept is extremely versatile and really enhances the performance of almost any rod. Turns a low end blank into a high end rod..
Norm

Jim: Thanks for the information. It makes sense that once the loops coming off a spin reel are "tamed" the inside diameter of the guide train should be as small and the guide as light as possible, but evidently not as small and light as fly rod guides. Line coming off a conventional reel does not need to be tamed, but small, light guides are still desirable. When the rod is used in salt water and/or big fish in harsh environments then the brute strength and corrosion resistance of guides becomes increasingly important.

I have fished exclusively in saltwater for decades and brute strength and corrosion resistance is not a priority for me whatsoever , thats because i have never in my lifetime had a Fuji guide corrode or show a lack in strength in any way shape or form. Many anglers still falsely believe that they need double foot guides & 50 pound braid when fishing the salt but unless you're targeting truly monster fish ( 80 + pounds) nothing could be further from the truth .


The KL-H high frame guides are much much stronger than people realize as are the smaller KB's and KT's , now if you're a rock climber who truly beats on your tackle than of course opt for the double foots but if you're in the majority who just surf fish off the sand don't be hesitant at all about going with all single foot guides .

They perform incredibly well and will allow builders to have a considerably lighter and more enjoyable rod to fish with . I have a few 8 and 9 foot surf rods that perform outstanding with the KR system and all single foots , i also have a few longer surf rods that utilize the RV 25 high frame, an RV 16 and a 10 M that transitions into a size 5 KB choke guide than all KT 5's out to the tip , it's mind boggling how incredible that rod performs .

I skip the 12 M as i find it completely unnecessary and since it's so close in height and ring diameter to the 10 M it's a completely unnecessary guide that is not beneficial imo , use either the 12 M or 10 M but using both makes little sense.

Here is an English version of the Fuji KR concept video showing slow motion video of line coming off both spinning and casting reels.
[m.youtube.com]
Norm

I’ve been out of rod building for a while now.

What would a guide train be like using KR guides?