So far I have gotten 2 rods custom built through a local builder. He is not new to the game and has been doing it for like 15 years. Well I am to the point where I want a 3rd rod and I am working with him on the specs. He told me the guide train sizes that he plans to use. To get an idea of the guide sizes I started comparing one of the custom rods he built to the guide height chart on Anglers Resource. The rod I was comparing is a spinning rod that is 8'3" with Torzite guides. The reel is a Sustain 4000 with 15lb braid. Since Torzites have a larger ID I told him to go with a 16 - 8 - 5.5 guide train instead of 20 - 10 - 5.5. I measured the guide height for the stripper and it was like 32 mm...a little short of the listed height of 43.3 on the chart. I went back and measured the OD of the guide and sure enough its a 12 not a 16. I have used this rod quite a bit and it is the farthest and smoothest casting rod that I have. I have not really paid attention to look for line slap on the blank (plus I fish at night a lot). This rod launches 1oz swimbaits effortlessly. Is it worth even mentioning it to the guy since the rod is performing so well? I know he will offer to fix it immediately. Is this one of those if it ain't broke don't fix it situations? I would think if the casting performance was being diminished by the smaller guide it would be pretty noticeable right? I could film it with my GoPro and use slow motion to see how the line is flowing. I think the fact that he load tests everything is why the rod still works so well with the smaller guide.

Isn't it a risk vs reward thing? What have you to gain for an otherwise well built rod that casts "effortlessly" and the "farthest and smoothest"? And what do you risk with a correction / repair? What if the corrected rod does not cast as well as it did? Then what?

So the rod in question is one of your favorites and best performing, and you never felt that is was wrong until you compared it to another? Fish it if you like how it performs. If your not happy have him change it.

I don’t have near the experience as a lot of builders here, but I know that 10 builders can build the same rod an none will be the same.

Donald, I definitely agree. I am leaning towards if it ain't broke don't fix it. I guess I was just wondering if maybe I was missing something. The more I learn it seems like ring height and placement is more important than the diameter...within reason. What are the issues with having a stripper guide that was too small? Just line slap on the blank? Or could the line actually tangle on the guide itself? Then the next time I use it I will pay attention to those areas and see if I am having any of those issues. While it is the farthest casting rod I have it is also my longest rod.

You're overthinking it, don't fix what isn't broke. Have you tried mono, or fluoro on it? Will you ever? That may be when you start noticing something you don't like since your using a 4000 reel.

If you can feel the difference and like it but you can't measure it don't change a thing until you feel differently.

A Sustain 4000 with 15 pound braid will cast into the next time zone with a 16 stripper or 20 stripper , trying to distinguish a difference is a lesson in futility . I use a 25 size stripper on my eleven foot surf rods and my reels spool diameter is close to twice the size of the 4000 Sustain , why does it work so well ....because i also use light braid under 20 pounds . Only go with guide sizes big enough to get the job done , only go larger IF you intend to use different reels and heavier lines. I also downsized my runners using KT 5's , i use to use 5.5 and size 6 runners.


That being said i also agree with everybody else, keep the rod and be happy , a 20 instead of a 16 is no big deal . Only if you were very very specific in your instructions to use a size 16 stripper would i bother to say something . The builder is going the smart route by using a 20 instead of a 16 since it's more forgiving to different reels and line sizes.

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> That being said i also agree with everybody else,
> keep the rod and be happy , a 20 instead of a 16
> is no big deal . Only if you were very very
> specific in your instructions to use a size 16
> stripper would i bother to say something . The
> builder is going the smart route by using a 20
> instead of a 16 since it's more forgiving to
> different reels and line sizes.

Yeah I don't think I would have even asked if it was a 20. It's a size 12. I'm pretty sure I know what happened. He does not keep torzite rings in his shop. So whoever he ordered from shipped a 12 instead of a 16 and he just didn't notice it.

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're overthinking it, don't fix what isn't
> broke. Have you tried mono, or fluoro on it? Will
> you ever? That may be when you start noticing
> something you don't like since your using a 4000
> reel.


Yeah I will never switch to mono or fluoro on this setup. I specifically got it for a spillway that I fish. They have it fenced off so you need a long cast to get close to it... or hop the fence and risk a $400 trespass fine and court date. Im too old for those games. Lol

Mark Danner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herb canter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > That being said i also agree with everybody
> else,
> > keep the rod and be happy , a 20 instead of a
> 16
> > is no big deal . Only if you were very very
> > specific in your instructions to use a size 16
> > stripper would i bother to say something . The
> > builder is going the smart route by using a 20
> > instead of a 16 since it's more forgiving to
> > different reels and line sizes.
>
> Yeah I don't think I would have even asked if it
> was a 20. It's a size 12. I'm pretty sure I know
> what happened. He does not keep torzite rings in
> his shop. So whoever he ordered from shipped a 12
> instead of a 16 and he just didn't notice it.



OMG , my apologies , i misunderstood , so he used a size 12 ring in the Torzite , i assume it's the 12 M and not the regular 12 which is shorter than the 12 M . Hey i think we all learned something and thats a size 12 ring even performs fantastic with lite braid but lets not forget you're using a Sustain 4000 which has the Propulsion spool lip and other tech that makes it throw much smaller coils than other similar size spinners . I also use the Sustains and Stradic's which are phenomenal casters so if using other spinners i wouldn't automatically assume a size 12 stripper will work as well .

I was experimenting a while back with a 6’6” ultra light rod build and just for the heck of it decided I would try a size KL12H stripper, KL8M, and KL5.5M for the reduction train and KB/KT 4 runners. I was really surprized how well the rod casted and performed, but i was using 500 and 1000 reels with very light braid. A KL12H is almost as high as an LV20, which I have used for a stripper on UL rods in the past. Braid is very forgiving, I guess even when using a 4000 reel.
If you like it keep it.
Norm

A 500 to 1000 size reel ............., i know the 1000 , 2000, 2500 ,3000, 3500 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500 , 6000, 6500 , 7500, 8000, 8500 , 10,000 , 10,500 and 14,000 but a size 500 i am not familiar with , must be tiny , you could spool up 2 pound braid on that 500 size and hit Canada from Miss .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2019 12:17AM by herb canter.

That because you surf fish. If you fished for pan fish you would be familiar with 500 sized reels. They are out there if you look for them
Norm

That is correct , while i respect the legendary & exceptionally hard battling pan fish i choose to admire them from a distance.

Your guide setup isn't out of the ordinary, I have spinning rods with a 10 stripper that I use 2000 - 2500 reels on that I've had long before there was thin braided line, they have always cast at least as well as my rods with larger guides with the mono line I used on them. Distance/performance comparisons have been reported right here years ago.

Mark,
The setup for you = using braid is working perfectly, so no need to change.

However, just for a sanity check, take the two rods in question and then, put the same reel on both rods, but put on another spool with 15 lb mono on the reel.

Then, take your favorite lure and do some test casting with the two different rods. I would not be surprised that you find a significant difference when casting with mono. i.e. the smaller guides will likely have a significant amount of line slap, which will likely detract from your casting distance.

This will put your mind to rest to illustrate the difference.

The use of limp small diameter braided line, allows one to run significantly smaller guides with excellent results.

Take care

Mark

Sounds like you are looking for the "Boogieman" under your bed. If it "is the farthest and smoothest casting rod that I have" then my only worry would be is how often can I go fishing.

Enjoy the rod and....Have fun

John

I would not be discouraged if the 15 # mono doesn't work well. It won't work well on anything exc very large reel spools and guides. If your rod works well on 15 # braid, and 15 pound braid is sufficient, simply enjoy. Hitena has a 21 # braid that is only .006 diameter, and it casts very well, so you have a little more room to go with heavier braid. There may be other very fine 20 # braids too.

Thanks John, you are right I am looking for something that is not there. Sometimes i get so wrapped up in to numbers and specs that i don't see what is in front of me. Lol

How can I determine the "wrong" - and right - guide sizes for a particular blank? Should I depend upon a particular manufacturer or rod builder? If so, which one?