I've been using Threadmaster lite exclusively for the past three years. I warm the resin and hardener in warm water prior to measuring and mixing, then mix 3 cc's of each for three full minutes before applying. Lately, I've noticed that the mix gets thick very quickly after I start applying it and it seems more like a high-build than a lite. I had been applying two coats but when it gets as thick as it has been, a second coat doesn't adhere as well as before and I get a few dry spots with the second coat. I typically apply the second coat one day after the first, usually at about the 24 hour mark. I suspect that this thickening is due to the colder air temps during the winter months. I just applied the first coat to a build and it was thick but covered well and has a good finish. All area of thread are well-covered. Can I leave this rod with one coat without compromising the durability of the finish?

Robert

Nothing magical about a second application. If 1 application achieves the look you want and you cannot detect thread turns with a finger nail you are done.

I too have noticed a reduction of open time / a quicker change of viscosity. I suspect it is a result of a warmer finishing work area - hurrah for spring.

Robert:
Donald is right, if you're getting the look you want, stop at a single coat. But unless Threadmaster has recently changed its Lite formula, it's difficult to imagine one coat doing a complete job. I'm wondering if you are over "warming" the epoxy prior to applying. Adding heat will thin the epoxy for a short time, but certainly Threadmaster lite doesn't need much thinning, and the heat will also make it set up much faster. And if you add more heat to remove bubbles, that will reduce further the curing time. Finally, finish does have a shelf life: one year the manufacturers tell us. Personally, I've noticed a reduction in satisfactory results from finish within 6-9 months after purchase. So the change in the Threadmaster results could also be the result of age.
Regards, jack

Robert,
Yes, one coat of finish is sufficient to secure the thread wraps. Additionally, one coat weighs considerably less than multiple coats which will allow the rod to perform closer to as it would in its naked state. Even if a thread or two get nicked, the finish (matrix) has bonded the other threads (fiber reinforcement) to the blank similar to any composite laminate construction. Additional coats of epoxy will obviously protect the thread better and produces the thick, glossy finish many people are accustomed to, so the call is up to you which way to go. Typically, I use one coat of finish on ultralight trout rods where the weight penalty is noticeable but “glob” it on saltwater rods which require more aggressive cleaning to remove salt and scales and where the weight penalty is barely noticed. That is my opinion. I am curious as to what the veterans have to say.
I am puzzled with the “dry spots” you referred to. You seem to be mixing thoroughly and applying the second coat “at about the 24 hour mark”, both of which are the preferred methods and should produce proper results. Air-borne contaminates? Although I use ProKote and am unfamiliar with Treadmaster, all of the available thread finishes are very good, as discussed on other posts, with only slightly different characteristics. While living in sunny So Cal, I am still subjected to applying finish at 45*-50* in the winter months where the viscosity increases but not to the point to produce problems. After the finish is applied, a heat gun will thin the finish to allow it to flow-out and then the rod is place in a heated curing cabinet. Without knowning more, I can only suggest you consider mixing a small amount of finish to coat two or three wraps and then another batch for the next few wraps and so on. Again, I am curious to learn what the veterans have to say.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Robert

I think the reason that your finish is getting thick more quickly that you want it to is that you may be overheating it with the hot water. When you warm the finish components before mixing, you are speeding the setting of the finish and therefore shortening the pot life. I have found that out by experience! Now before mixing my finish i warm both components by only holding them in my hands for about 15-20 minutes, or putting both bottles in a shirt pocket for 20-25 minutes. I also warm my mixing ball by putting it in a pants pocket while the finish warms. I also have been using only Threadmaster lite for 6 or 7 years, and i like the way if turns out on the rod. Give it a try again without making it "too warm".

ps I literally just turned around from my lathe where I just put on a finish coat of TM lite, got on Rodbuilding.org, and saw this tread starting!

Rog

If you get coverage with one coat that's enough. I'm with Roger on the temp. Approx. 100F before mixing, and about the same while drying. Excellent results. I often mix a total of 1cc without issue.

Your resin is most likely thickening faster than you expect because of the heat not because of the cold. Warming resin will thin it, but it also causes it to set faster. Just something to keep in mind.

Has anyone experienced an epoxy mix problem when only mixing 2 minutes? I understand the answer may vary with different mix methods, but using a square tip "popsicle" stick I have never sensed that 2 minutes was not enough. You may be able to gain a minute if you mix like I do.

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone experienced an epoxy mix problem when
> only mixing 2 minutes? I understand the answer
> may vary with different mix methods, but using a
> square tip "popsicle" stick I have never sensed
> that 2 minutes was not enough. You may be able to
> gain a minute if you mix like I do.


With Threadmaster regular and lite i have had zero issues with mixing for just a minute let alone two , as long as it becomes crystal clear with no bubbles it's been good to go with me and has performed perfectly .

Thank you, gentlemen, for the quick and many responses. I'll try less warming and less mixing.

Bob

Here is a piece from Andy Dear on Threadmaster :

"More than likely your problem is the temp of the room and the temp of the unmixed resin and hardener. Most people who expierence problems with bubbles this time of year are trying to use their epoxy in a room that is much too cold. The room HAS to be at least 68-70 degrees to achieve optimum results. This is not just with TM but with any resin system. Try heating the bottles in a microwave for about 6 seconds before you mix the 2 parts together"


[www.rodbuilding.org]

Best results i have had with Threadmaster both regular and lite ( Now this IS NOT recommended) but after extensive failures in the beginning i do two things now and these two things have resulted in perfect results every time , i boil water in a big pot , i take it off the stove place it on a concrete floor and place the Threadmaster into the pot .


I wait about 3 minutes and measure and pour into small cup , i mix for approx 90 seconds , there are never any bubbles and the mix becomes crystal clear in about a minute , i then pour on to tin foil . The mix remains perfectly clear and flows perfectly onto the wraps and self levels nearly instantly , it hardens no faster and no slower than normal and the results are stellar .

Now here's the most amazing thing , the bottles that have been put through this process look identical to an unopened pack of Threadmaster and perform the same with no ill effects whatsoever .

Crazy idea .........to many people absolutely but you got to experiment , everyone knows how much i love to experiment . Do i recommend this , no , i am saying what i have done and what worked for me .

Threadmaster has proven to me to be amazingly tolerant of heat and mixing mistakes but if the rooms cold all this goes out the window , the room MUST be 70 degrees of higher because i have failed every time when the room was even slightly cold. The mix becomes gel like almost instantly .

I do not heat above body temp before mixing. I mix in an upside down soda can for 2 min.s with a popsickle stick. Blow thru a straw to release bubbles from mix. and apply. I just started using this finish and wanted to follow mixing instructions , thus the 2 min mix. Excellent results so far thru about 15 mixes.

Not that crazy, Herb! My process is nearly the same as yours, except I pour boiling water in a jar that both bottles fit in and stay upright. Everything else is the same, and 4 out of 5 builds only require one coat of epoxy. I also make sure my rod room is around 75 degrees. I haven't tried this with other brands...this process works every time with TM-no need to experiment!

Haven't boiled water since we had the baby.

I used to mix my Threadmaster Lite finish and then place the container in hot water. My finish was setting up too quickly until I figured out it was the too hot water. I found lukewarm at best works.

Just keep your rod building room at 70 degrees or higher.
Forget about doing any warming of the finish.
Mix for at least 120 seconds or two minutes.
Apply and let it go.

If you like, as the rod is turning, you can give each guide and wrap a quick heat treatment with a torch, or heat gun to let things flow out nicely.

If you look at many of the rod building factory tours, you will see the finish applier doing the heat treatment of a couple of seconds to each guide after the finish has been applied to level and let the finish flow nicely.

[www.youtube.com]

Note: time stamp 21.34

The quick heat treatment is all that is required. Notice that the person doing the finish application takes about 30 seconds to 1 minute to apply finish to the entire amount of rod guides and butt wraps.


Be safe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2019 12:39PM by roger wilson.

My basement shop is usually 66-68 degrees though I do use a radiant electric heater to try an warm it a bit more. I've tried all the common brands of epoxy finish, and TM regular and Lite are the most user friendly and fool proof finish in my environment. I put my bottles under a 60W clamp light for 10 minutes or so until the bottles are slightly warm. Then stir 2 minutes in the cup, apply generously right out of the cup with a golden taklon artist brush (using brush to spread the finish not actually brushing it on or touching the threads). Blow on the finish with a straw so all the bubbles disappear and let it turn 4 to 6 hours.
Easy to get great results.

John Shear
Chippewa Falls, WI