Yeah.. I always seem to do or say things a little diffrent lol

but don,t you think that putting guides on the rod changes the state of the rod and that all testing should be done in the new actual state..besides there is no natural state other than being straight, no flex..it sounds like the whole spine question again with natural flexes and the way the rod WANTS to bend..the rod doesn,t want to bend..we or the fish force it to bend..so by bending it with the line through the guides you can see where the guides would best distribute the forces or not..most of the rods are built on the straightest axis anyway so that they are not on spine or in the "natural" state to begin with..i actually think the two string method probably is best for the reasons David gave for keeping the guides in place and making easier adjustments..may go to it for that reason only..lol.

Ben,
“but don,t you think putting guides on the rod changes the state of the rod”… Absolutely.
“…and that all testing should be done in the new actual state.” The blank is not in its new state yet. The guides are merely and temporarily set on the blank with rubber bands or tape so they can be easily positioned to evenly distribute induced stress during static testing. Agreed, we are not including the additional weight of thread wraps and epoxy but the actual placement of the guides is far more critical than the minimal additional weight. Actually, one could add two or three rubber bands to mimic the thread and epoxy weight for even more precise guide positioning now that you made me think of it.
“besides there is no natural state other than being straight, no flex”. Absolutely and precisely why positioning the guides so the line mimics the arc of the blank when flexed in its naked state is so important.
“the rod doesn,t want to bend..we or the fish force it to bend..so by bending it with the line through the guides you can see where the guides would best distribute the forces or not..” Absolutely not. Loading the line through the guides introduces stresses which totally obscures the arc the blank would assume when deflected in its naked state. Static loading a blank for guide placement is all about allowing the blank to flex as it would in its naked state and placing the guides to accommodate such, not vise versa. Loading a blank through arbitrarily placed guides masks and confuses where they need to be.
“i actually think the two string method probably is best for the reasons Dave gave for keeping the guides in place and making easier adjustments.. may go to it for that reason only..” Absolutely and so much more.
Please do not think I am picking on you. I am simply attempting to explain what is obvious to me. While I firmly believe all just previously said, you have offered very good points which have sparked my Habitual-Over-Thinking (Oh no, not again).
We are all here to learn!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

hi Mark..thanks for the very descriptive reply..i,m pretty sure i know what you are saying and that,s the reason for using the static loading system as i understood it but once you go through the process and have the guides in position, what happens when you now string the guides up and put a load on the rod using the guides..will you have to make adjustments again because the rod is flexed by the guides and not the way it is built to without guides?

Tom's exact words from his article in the library under "Static load testing"

" Why use a separate line to load the rod instead of the line coming from the reel? Well, if you load the line coming from the reel, you don't get a true picture of how you blank wants and needs to flex. That's right - the line pulling between the guides can force the blank into a bend it wouldn't otherwise take. So we load from the tip and allow the blank to flex in the manner it was designed to. That's the bend we're trying to mimic with our line"


The fact that the two line method makes the guides much easier to adjust is just an added benefit but it's NOT the reason the two line method is used as some seem to be mistaken about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2019 10:47PM by herb canter.

Ben,
I am glad you took no offence and appear to be more comfortable with static load testing. If the “two-string-method” is employed, the guides will be positioned on the blank at the optimum points to evenly distribute an induced load. Now, when a fish (or tree stump for that matter) pulls on the line, that load will be transferred through the guides to the blank at the predetermined, optimal points. Once the two-string-method reveals the best positions for the guides on any given blank, those positions never change.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Herb, of course using a line attached to the tip top to flex the blank is the actual reason you use two lines. I'm not mistaken in that fact. My post was more to shut down the idea of using the line running through the guides to load the blank, via pointing out one very big problem with doing so.

Oh good , thank God lol. Sometimes it's hard to tell , you had me going there for a while .

Anthony Unger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am under the undestanding that for the most
> part, on the guide system, your stripper guide
> should be around half the diameter of the reel
> spool size correct? This is for spinning rods of
> coarse.

I would say at least half the diameter of the reel spool (just to be on the safe side). It varies from rod to rod depending on application and what do you want to obtain from that rod. You have to keep in mind that lighter the lure (or weight) less friction you want. when it comes to casting length, most people tend to say that if braid is involved it doesn't really matter the stripper diameter but that is not the case. It is one thing to cast a 100 grams spoon with a surf rod and a completely different thing to cast a 2 grams crankbait with a trout or crappie rod when every meter counts. So, you need to adapt your build to according to the way is going to be fished.

kingofbeasts custom rods

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always choose a rod before the reel , the rod
> choice determines much more than a reel does .
> I have never based a rod choice on what reel i had
> or planned to use rod ALWAYS comes first .
> .

Well it is one thing to chose the rod -reel combo to fish with in a certain scenario and another thing to chose how to build a rod. A rod is a tool build specifically for a certain job and you can make it more universal or fine tunned for something. When you build a rod you already know how it's going to be fished because the build itself is meant to fill a gap or a specific need in one's fishing routine. So you already know, the application, target species, lures, line and reel class you would like to use . So the reel will pretty much come first and determine the way the new rod it's going to look when it is finished. If you choose one of the new guide placement systems like the New Guide Concept or Fuji KR , the only way to place the guides is to measure some reel parameters first (regardless if it is the up sweep or the spool diameter).

kingofbeasts custom rods

Carol Staiculescu:

" When it comes to casting length, most people tend to say that if braid is involved it doesn't really matter the stripper diameter but that is not the case. It is one thing to cast a 100 grams spoon with a surf rod and a completely different thing to cast a 2 grams crankbait with a trout or crappie rod when every meter counts. So, you need to adapt your build to according to the way is going to be fished"


Carol , my point was light braid works exceptionally well and is ridiculously forgiving when compared to other lines , the lighter and more supple the braid the further you're going to cast with ANY setup regardless of the weight you're throwing . Anthony's question was how do you match up a specific reel for a specific rod and i understand you're a custom builder that sells rods and i understand different anglers will have very specific preferences and i think Anthony understands that also. If Anthony's question was " What makes a custom rod custom" your comments would be a great answer .

I'm just telling Anthony the best way i know how to setup a spinning reel to match a specific rod so they both perform at their very best and matching guide heights and placement is very specific to each individual reel . Ring sizes are based partly on spool diameter but even more so on line type, size and pound test of the line to be used.

I always choose the blank first if you don't and feel differently i respect that , one can't work without the other and these are just my opinions .

Thanks for your comments

Man you guys are goin at it... Lol great reads by the way.. I look at it this way.. Sure you can select the blank first, then go from there.. I can build a rod well enough that people come keep coming back.. However.. I cannot build a reel... Yet.. So picking a reel is my first step when matching a rod and reel.. I can customize one of the 2 to meet the needs of the other..