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4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Bob Ginther (162.245.181.---)
Date: March 11, 2019 11:05PM

So, for my first project i decided to rebuild my 1987 Cabelas Fish Eagle II 4' 6" UL spinning rod. This might not be the best UL rod anymore but it was all the bells and whistles for me when I bought it - my first "good" rod. So its kind of sentimental and a good practice project. I have already replaced the reel seat with a Fuji VSS and removed all the guides. The blank looks good - can barely tell where the guides were.

My question is how do I size and lay out the guides? The KR calculator says it is for rods 5'6" and up. Do I use the NGC/GPS and calculate the reduction guides off the choke point found by extending spool arbor across the blank and static load for the runners? Or is there some other way to do this?

Micro guides for the runners? From what I have read possibly the UL blank and micros may not be the best beginner practice project? But there will only be one or two runners and I have time to rewrap as necessary til I get them right. Feel free to talk me out of this if dealing with this blank and the micros is not a good practice project.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 11, 2019 11:18PM

Bob , you decided to scrap all the posts you made about the St. Croix blank you bought , we were all set it was just deciding on the reel seat placement and you were on your way to Mexico . I guess you never even started the last one huh ? Anyways i didn't even think 4 foot rods existed so i'll bow out of this one , you sure thats not the length of just the handle section?

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Bob Ginther (162.245.181.---)
Date: March 11, 2019 11:35PM

Herb, I didn't scrap anything! All concepts are still in the works. I just decided I didn't want to do my first wraps etc on my expensive blanks... I will still build the the surf rods, that is what I fish most. But after all the discussions I am stepping back and researching more on the blank. I am not confident I have the correct blank for what I am trying to do so still researching that one.

I actually have a St Croix 6'3' MLF blank that I will build for my walleye jigging rod. That one will be my first actual build once I am confident after getting some practice in.

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 09:33AM

Herb..short rods are coming back..fisherman are slowy loosing their obsession with casting distance and tournament fishing which is not really fishing anyway..my best ever spinbait rod was a 41/2' uglystick for cold water spinning..when it broke i cried then built two more..

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 10:54AM

What’s the distance from the front of the spool to the tip of the rod?

You can certainly use KR guides. The Stripper would be a KL16H, folllowed by KL8H, and KL 5.5M for the reduction train. For the choke guide use a KB 5 or 4.5 or 4 followed by KT 5 or 4.5 or 4 runners (I would use 2). The tip top would be a matching Fuji LG.

If you wanted a lighter guide train, the use the Minima4 Match (M) guides for the reduction train and Minima4 fly (F) guides for the runners. Sizes I would use, would be 16M, 8M, 5M followed by 4wF runners and a matching tip top.

Depending on the length of the handle I would probably use 6 guides total, not counting the tip top.
Norm

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 11:57AM

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Herb..short rods are coming back..fisherman are
> slowy loosing their obsession with casting
> distance and tournament fishing which is not
> really fishing anyway..my best ever spinbait rod
> was a 41/2' uglystick for cold water
> spinning..when it broke i cried then built two
> more..



My God man where do they find these people , Ben please snap out of it get a hold of yourself !!!!

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 12:42PM

ha, ha..Herb, have you built or fished the RG42..i,ve built two so far and have a blank in reserve..one is a spinner the other is a caster with a 5"extended butt and a pisto grip on it..if you like the throb of a spinnerbait at any speed you wil love these shortys..

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 12:51PM

I looked over the RG42 and said to myself " Who in their right mind would ever buy that thing" so not only have i not fished that " Fisher Price" looking toy i have no plans on purchasing one either . May work for hooking those plastic fish on a living room carpet though.

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 01:26PM

Herb, i,m thinking of using the short rod that,s in reserve to build a short surf rod..lol.

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 01:34PM

Ok fellas, let’s help Bob with some information.
Bob, if you want tentative spacing for a KR set up let me know the tip to reel spool distance, or the butt to reel spool distance.
Norm

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Bob Ginther (---.your-info.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 03:30PM

Thanks Norm, I will get that to you after work tonight.

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Bob Ginther (162.245.181.---)
Date: March 12, 2019 07:49PM

Norm, the overall length is 55". From butt to tip of spool arbor extended is 8". From the front edge of the spool arbor to the tip of the rod is 47" .

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 07:52PM

One redeeming feature of buying quality guides, regardless of how heavy or light they "feel", is that if you break the rod or don't like it you can always salvage the guides and use them on a new build.

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 09:59PM

For a tentative spacing using a 1000 reel this is what I would start with.
From the tip top in inches.
3.5” KT 5 or 4.5
7.5” KT 5 or 4.5
12” KB 5 or 4.5. - Choke guide
17” KL5.5M
22.5” KL8H
28.5” KL16H
If you want to go lighter use the Minima4 guides as I mentioned above, in the same positions.
This should put the stripper at 18.5” in front of the reel spool and the choke at 16.5” in front of the stripper.
Tape the guides on and static test and test cast to fine tune. I think this will give you a good static test and should cast quite well.
I have found that the kR GPS does not do a good job with short rods, but I think this layout should work very well. Hope this helps.
Norm

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Bob Ginther (162.245.181.---)
Date: March 12, 2019 10:50PM

Thank you very much Norm. I will do as you suggest.

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 11:02PM

You’re welcome.
Norm

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Stan Wasik (---.client.mchsi.com)
Date: March 13, 2019 09:48AM

Interesting thread and something that I am trying to understand . I am building my first using the KLH guide set and the GPS software. I have some things to learn but one question in my mind is about using the different guides ex: KB KT and KLH together in the set. How do you know which ones to use and put them together. I've seen this before and it aroused my curiosity about why?

I bought a KLH set and maybe it came with the KB and KT guides included and I just dont know it. Being a guy who has always used store bought rods, after deciding to build my own and after reading and researching the Fuji system, I just find it fascinating and makes so much sense.

If the answers are too long to provide in this thread I understand, just point me in the right direction and I'll go there, otherwise I want to thank everyone who posts the helpful information here to help us newer builders cut down our learning curve on this craft that I am learning. I cant imagine not having all the help and what it would take to get started and all the mistakes that would be made

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 13, 2019 10:19AM

Hope you did not buy the Mudhole KR guide kit. In my opinion, they don’t do a very good job putting the kit together according to Fuji’s recommendations.
The difference between the Fuji KB guides and the KT guides is that the KBs have a longer and wider foot but still have the same ring size. The KB guides are meant to be used in the mid section (or belly) of the rod to better resist pullout forces that occur in this section of the rod when fully loaded. Hence the acronym Belly guides. The KT guides have a shorter and thinner foot and are meant to be used in the tip section of the rod where pull forces are not so great. The smaller thinner foot makes them lighter and more suitable for use in the tip section of the rod, thus the name Tip guides. For most casting rods two to three KBs are normally used and for spinning rods one to two KBs are normal. However, there is law against using all KBs or KTs. I use a locking wrap on all my single foot guides, making pullou a moot point, but I still use both KB and KT guides. Hope this helps.
Norm

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: March 13, 2019 10:24AM

hi Stan..there was nothing wrong with the old process of learning and making mistakes..the mistakes were all fairly easy to correct and you learned even more in the process..you became somewhat fearless and tried new things with pleasure..

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Re: 4' 6" Ultralight Guide help needed
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 13, 2019 10:59AM

Oh, as a PS I forgot to mention the Fuji KL-H guides. These are high frame small ring spinning guides that are used as reduction guides to control and rapidly choke the line coming from the spinning reel and to smoothly transition the line to the KB/KT runners. Based on the reel and/or the line used these KL-Hs are grouped for optimal performance. For example, a KL16H stripper groups with KL8H, and kL5.5M; KL20H groups with KL10H, and KL5.5M; and the KL25H groups with KL12H and KL5.5M. Under some situations the third reduction guide guide and choke guide size may change, but the first two reduction guides of the group always stay the same.
Norm

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