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Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 11, 2019 03:05PM

Hello guys, first post here. Figured this would be the ideal place (hopefully) to ask about maybe buying a premade rod being it’s too close to season to be making my own rod now.

I’ve been using and ok with the St Croix 6’3” medium Eyecon and then last spring I was talked into buying which turned out to be a very big letdown/disappointed with a Dobyn 7’ Fury I purchased (terrible single footed guides) that’s another story in itself.

Way back in 84’ (ya I’m getting old) I spun a pair of Fenwick HMG blanks 5’6” UL and also a 7”L, both spinning and I still have to this day that little UL, and it’s proven the worth of a good blank and components and why I’m now chasing the ideal setup for vertical jiggin 5/8-3/4oz leadheads.

So to purchase a rod for this spring, I looked at the Grandt Detroit River specials Jim makes (actually spoke with him) and they seem like fine rods but I’m here looking for other quality premade options and then blank/components to build my own and be ready for next spring

I prefer a baitcasting reel with flipping switch vs a spinning reel

I want a longer solid handle (maybe cork or carbon fibre) that rests against my elbow/forearm and my hand will be at the reel, requiring a 14” butt section which I’m thinking will require a longer blank initially (much easier on my back,shoulders and arms)
Someone mentioned a good Vertical Jigging rod will have a tip that only flexs the first 2”-4” but its hard to tell from looking at blank docs amongst different companies.

I feel in lust over the low profile and multiple casting rod guides on the one Denali myriad (I think it’s called) and would seriously love to go with the same style for my own rod I build, are they termed Micro guides ?? I like trick stuff, and stuff the masses don’t have, just enjoy being different haha.

What casting guide brand, model, and number of guides would you suggest, keep in mind I Won’t be casting with this rod, drop presentation to bottom and lift and drop only.... Single vs double foot ??

I had been seriously looking at Mudholes site for their MHX blanks and decided to call down there. The guy on the phone said ya sorry we don’t fish that style down here so I’m not much help to you. Didn’t leave me feeling too good and started looking elsewhere although I’m sure they likely have many blanks that would work, I’m just not sure of their quality but their customer service didn’t leave me feeling too good as mentioned.
Too bad he didn’t know I’m looking to purchase a revolving/drying machine and everything I need to continue making rods and not just one for vertical jiggin.

Apologies for long post

Appreciate any and all help Thank you. Ernie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2019 03:13PM by Ernie Roberts.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.61.---)
Date: March 11, 2019 05:00PM

What is the action description of the rod you have been using an like? Is there something specific that you would like to improve?

Sounds to me that a med heavy power xfast action (to get a somewhat flexible/lively tip) blank would be right. You need to be able to handle the heavy jigs, but you don't want a "broomstick." You want a good amount of tip give as you're jigging.

It's a very popular technique here, so maybe some real experts on it will chime in.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 11, 2019 05:13PM

Hey Michael, the Eyecon I used last year is a 6'3" medium with Xfast tip. but its a spinning rod and id like to go to casting...

what I'd like to improve on?? once I decide to build my own.....a longer butt section, 14" solid cork or harder material, and I have no use for a front grip, other than maybe something decorative to hide front of reel seat..I'm wondering what length blank I'd need to start with to end up something not too long as a longer rod is more work when working these heavier jigs for hours on end..

As you mentioned I certainly don’t need broomstick stiff, yet something with ample backbone but a tip stiff enough and yet not too stiff

Yes I'd love to hear from veterans who know this Vertical jigging game and make their own rods for this particular application...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2019 12:59AM by Ernie Roberts.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 11, 2019 07:53PM

You can build a casting rod on any type of blank you like. Sounds like a spin jig blank (6’6” or 6’9”) would fit your needs. They have a fast to extra fast tip with plenty of power in the midsection and butt. They are designed for jigging, and also cast very well. There are a lot of very good spin jig blanks out there, including MHX, it depends on how much you want to spend. The Fuji KR concept guides would be an excellent choice, and would include a double ft KW size 10 as the stripper, followed a KW size 5.5 guide, followed by 2 or 3 single ft KB size 5 or 4.5 guides as runners, with the remaining running guides being single ft KT 5 or 4.5 guides. The tip top would be a matching Fuji LG with either a 5 or 4.5 ring size, depending on the size runners you use.
Norm

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.61.---)
Date: March 11, 2019 10:33PM

Ernie, I have a guide friend who does that technique on the Detroit River, am trying to contact him. I'll be back. I personally think you can do better than a spin-jig blank built for cast, but will see what my friend says. He is a guide on the river, but also an expert builder.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 01:23AM

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can build a casting rod on any type of blank
> you like. Sounds like a spin jig blank (6’6”
> or 6’9”) would fit your needs. They have a
> fast to extra fast tip with plenty of power in the
> midsection and butt. They are designed for
> jigging, and also cast very well. There are a lot
> of very good spin jig blanks out there, including
> MHX, it depends on how much you want to spend. The
> Fuji KR concept guides would be an excellent
> choice, and would include a double ft KW size 10
> as the stripper, followed a KW size 5.5 guide,
> followed by 2 or 3 single ft KB size 5 or 4.5
> guides as runners, with the remaining running
> guides being single ft KT 5 or 4.5 guides. The tip
> top would be a matching Fuji LG with either a 5 or
> 4.5 ring size, depending on the size runners you
> use.
> Norm

Thanks Norm, are the spinning and casting blanks one in the same?? If so then sure that will might make a blank selection easier or in theory in maybe should haha

So no worries about me wanting a longer 14” handle (butt to centre of reel seat) in using say a 6’6” -6’9” blank.

Regarding a MHX, only thing I know about them is the bit I’ve researched off mudholes site and it seems to be in the upper end of their blanks. I’ love the look of those White blanks)

If I’m going to spend any money I’d rather buy best quality vs bang for the buck return (sensitivity, weight and balance) rather than spend hard earned money on the best blank going when maybe a blank 1/2 the cost was maybe in same ballpark.

I certainly am aware of the major difference in sensitivity alone with a quality blank and its components. so I’d rather do it and do it once Right. But if a $100-$200 blank iwoupd get me pretty close to what another $500 blank might be then I’d take the cheaper alternative until I feel I’m accomplished enough as a builder to go all out. I already have this feeling this hobby just might turn into something I could become quite passionate about!!

I’ll have a look at the Fuji guides you suggested (would really prefer, if it’s practical to use low low profile guides down that blank and if the requires more guides then I’m ok with that. Common sense is telling me the more guides used the stiffer and heavier it’ll make the rod.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 01:30AM

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ernie, I have a guide friend who does that
> technique on the Detroit River, am trying to
> contact him. I'll be back. I personally think
> you can do better than a spin-jig blank built for
> cast, but will see what my friend says. He is a
> guide on the river, but also an expert builder.

That much appreciated Michael !!

Sitting here thinking of the 7’ MH XF rod I got last year, after using it one afternoon Vertical Jigging and realizing how tip heavy it was I ended up stuffing one two then three, 2oz pencil sinkers up the butt as an experiment. Put the fulcrum a lot closer to where it needed to be, unfortunately the increase in overall weight wasn’t a keeper. So yes balance is something I’d love to address.

I look forward to seeing if your friend gets back to you, tnx again

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 08:11AM

Ernie,
If you are going to balance a tip heavy rod with weights, keep all of the weight in the last 1/2 inch of the rod. A bunch of weight that is 4 inches from the end of the butt, essentially is just making the rod heavier.

You can do this by just using an oversized butt cap and using 1/2 inch wide lead tape wrapped on the bare blank before applying the butt cap.

Good luck

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (172.58.45.---)
Date: March 12, 2019 10:35AM

Production rod to look at the St. Croix 5, 4, or 3C68MXF, bring your casting reel with you and mount it up for your tests. Frankly if that spinning rod does it all, except it's configuration, I'd build the casting rod on that blank. I doubt you'll need a longer rear grip than 9 inches, especially if you downsize the guide train. My walleye rods that fit your needs are all discontinued.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 11:15AM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ernie,
> If you are going to balance a tip heavy rod with
> weights, keep all of the weight in the last 1/2
> inch of the rod. A bunch of weight that is 4
> inches from the end of the butt, essentially is
> just making the rod heavier.
>
> You can do this by just using an oversized butt
> cap and using 1/2 inch wide lead tape wrapped on
> the bare blank before applying the butt cap.
>
> Good luck

Thanks Roger, and yes my short lived experiment did exactly that, just made the rod heavier but I came to the conclusion a shorter rod (6’-6’3”) is the way to go for this fishing technique. Grandt Detroit river specials are Mostly sold in a 5’6” model but I think I’d like to stay a touch longer



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2019 05:05PM by Ernie Roberts.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 11:39AM

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Production rod to look at the St. Croix 5, 4, or
> 3C68MXF, bring your casting reel with you and
> mount it up for your tests. Frankly if that
> spinning rod does it all, except it's
> configuration, I'd build the casting rod on that
> blank. I doubt you'll need a longer rear grip than
> 9 inches, especially if you downsize the guide
> train. My walleye rods that fit your needs are all
> discontinued.

Didn’t have much luck with those St Croix numbers and maybe it’s just my computer. The shops around here Might have a few St Croix rods but to get anything quality they’ll be in the $200-$400 range but limited stock.

In regard to guide train you mention, because I was thinking the first stripper guide I believe their called, would I be best to have it at the same height as my line guide on my casting reel (even though this won’t be used for casting, simply let the weight go straight to bottom lift up and repeat.

I’m almost thinking at this point to get myself setup with the proper components and build my own and if it’s not ready to use once the mass migration of Walleye arrive here shortly I can always use what I have for now. I’d like to do it right.

Was looking at the Pointblank and Rainshadow blanks

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 11:55AM

Any spinning blank can be made into a casting rod and vice versa. A blank is a blank, do with it as you wish. Fuji KR guides are low profile, and are top notch guides. By using smaller lighter guides you also help to balance the rod in your favor. The MHX are a really good bang for the buck, and their warranty is one of the best out there. I bought an MHX EliteX NSJ 843 blank at the Expo and I’m quite impressed with it. It weighs 1.95 oz on my scale, and had an intrinsic power of 741 grams, making it a very light and powerful rod, that I would place in the MH category. The 6’9” version will be lighter and probably just as powerful. Point Blanks are also very light and powerful blanks with a fast to extra fast action. The IPs for the PB69MLXF, PB69MXF, and PB69MHXf are 512g, 602 g, and 785 g, respectively.
Norm

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 12:22PM

Ernie Roberts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Danek Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ernie, I have a guide friend who does that
> > technique on the Detroit River, am trying to
> > contact him. I'll be back. I personally think
> > you can do better than a spin-jig blank built
> for
> > cast, but will see what my friend says. He is
> a
> > guide on the river, but also an expert builder.
>
> That much appreciated Michael !!
>
> Sitting here thinking of the 7’ MH XF rod I got
> last year, after using it one afternoon Vertical
> Jigging and realizing how tip heavy it was I ended
> up stuffing one two then three, 2oz pencil sinkers
> up the butt as an experiment. Put the fulcrum a
> lot closer to where it needed to be, unfortunately
> the increase in overall weight wasn’t a keeper.
> So yes balance is something I’d love to address.
>
>
> I look forward to seeing if your friend gets back
> to you, tnx again


I don't know the size of the runners St. Croix uses on the model you're talking about but the models i have use runners that are way too large and thats to fit as many reel types and line sizes as possible but if you're building one going smaller will make a noticeable difference.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 01:37PM

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any spinning blank can be made into a casting rod
> and vice versa. A blank is a blank, do with it as
> you wish. Fuji KR guides are low profile, and are
> top notch guides. By using smaller lighter guides
> you also help to balance the rod in your favor.
> The MHX are a really good bang for the buck, and
> their warranty is one of the best out there. I
> bought an MHX EliteX NSJ 843 blank at the Expo
> and I’m quite impressed with it. It weighs 1.95
> oz on my scale, and had an intrinsic power of 741
> grams, making it a very light and powerful rod,
> that I would place in the MH category. The
> 6’9” version will be lighter and probably just
> as powerful. Point Blanks are also very light and
> powerful blanks with a fast to extra fast action.
> The IPs for the PB69MLXF, PB69MXF, and PB69MHXf
> are 512g, 602 g, and 785 g, respectively.
> Norm

Thanks Norm, well that makes perfect sense that a blank is a blank to be transformed into spinning or casting. Tnx for clearing that up.

The more I think about it and the balance points between hand placement between spinning and casting setups, I think I’m going to go spinning for the primary reason that holding the rod forward while fishing makes it a better balanced setup overall. Casting rod/reel setup when you spend the entire time lift and drop, the hand sits more in behind the reel shifting balance/fulcrum point back further making it more tip heavy compared to a spinning reel where you support/balance rod at middle of reel. I wouldn’t require as long of rear handle either if I went spinning.

So ya and I apologize and I’d be grateful to have direction for a spinning setup.

Well after my short lived experience calling down to mudhole last week looking for information, and maybe it was just the one kid I had on the phone, he could’ve cared less, being told ya sorry we don’t do that style of fishing down here. We all know that feeling when we’re talking with someone and you just know they don’t wanna be on the phone, well that’s how I felt falling down there. I’m not so sure I wanna deal with them again. Then after reading reviews on orders either not going out for weeks on end or worse being told they either lost or partial orders or were sent out then not showing up and or MH not willing to stand behind their product line (just from reviews) who wouldn’t quickly turn into a frustrated customer..., I’m not so sure that’s a company I care to do business with. Sure they have a great selection of products but I’ve always felt it doesn’t matter how good a piece of equipment might be, without decent customer service it’s not worth having.

Whats the general consensus here with dealing with Mudhole ??

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 01:44PM

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ernie Roberts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Michael Danek Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ernie, I have a guide friend who does that
> > > technique on the Detroit River, am trying to
> > > contact him. I'll be back. I personally
> think
> > > you can do better than a spin-jig blank built
> > for
> > > cast, but will see what my friend says. He
> is
> > a
> > > guide on the river, but also an expert
> builder.
> >
> > That much appreciated Michael !!
> >
> > Sitting here thinking of the 7’ MH XF rod I
> got
> > last year, after using it one afternoon
> Vertical
> > Jigging and realizing how tip heavy it was I
> ended
> > up stuffing one two then three, 2oz pencil
> sinkers
> > up the butt as an experiment. Put the fulcrum a
> > lot closer to where it needed to be,
> unfortunately
> > the increase in overall weight wasn’t a
> keeper.
> > So yes balance is something I’d love to
> address.
> >
> >
> > I look forward to seeing if your friend gets
> back
> > to you, tnx again
>
>
> I don't know the size of the runners St. Croix
> uses on the model you're talking about but the
> models i have use runners that are way too large
> and thats to fit as many reel types and line sizes
> as possible but if you're building one going
> smaller will make a noticeable difference.

Hi Herb, are you michaels friend maybe ??

Well sir the St Croix 6’3” medium/XF tip Eyecon I currently have is a spinning rod.
And this is where building a custom rod specific to a particular application will be fantastic.

Do you fish the Detroit Herb?? If so what do you prefer in both a spinning and casting rod rod setup ?? 6’ or less ??

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 01:59PM

In my opinion Mudhole has exceptional service, and I have never had a problem with them. They are always more than willing to stand by their products. The warranty on their blanks is the best I have ever used, it is hassle free and the the replacement is shipped very quickly. Just make sure you register the blank.on the MHX website. I whole heartily endorse them. In fact, I have never had any issues with any of the sponsors of this site, except for Northfork Composites. They are all great and give exceptional service. Don’t judge a company by the resonse of a single customer service representative who was totally unfamiliar with the technique you use. Remember their employees live in Florida, where walleye fishing is non existent, so they deserve a little forgiveness and understanding.
For a spinning rod setup I would strongly recommend the Fuji KR concept.
Norm

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 02:16PM

Ernie Roberts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herb canter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ernie Roberts Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Michael Danek Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Ernie, I have a guide friend who does that
> > > > technique on the Detroit River, am trying
> to
> > > > contact him. I'll be back. I personally
> > think
> > > > you can do better than a spin-jig blank
> built
> > > for
> > > > cast, but will see what my friend says. He
> > is
> > > a
> > > > guide on the river, but also an expert
> > builder.
> > >
> > > That much appreciated Michael !!
> > >
> > > Sitting here thinking of the 7’ MH XF rod I
> > got
> > > last year, after using it one afternoon
> > Vertical
> > > Jigging and realizing how tip heavy it was I
> > ended
> > > up stuffing one two then three, 2oz pencil
> > sinkers
> > > up the butt as an experiment. Put the fulcrum
> a
> > > lot closer to where it needed to be,
> > unfortunately
> > > the increase in overall weight wasn’t a
> > keeper.
> > > So yes balance is something I’d love to
> > address.
> > >
> > >
> > > I look forward to seeing if your friend gets
> > back
> > > to you, tnx again
> >
> >
> > I don't know the size of the runners St. Croix
> > uses on the model you're talking about but the
> > models i have use runners that are way too
> large
> > and thats to fit as many reel types and line
> sizes
> > as possible but if you're building one going
> > smaller will make a noticeable difference.
>
> Hi Herb, are you michaels friend maybe ??
>
> Well sir the St Croix 6’3” medium/XF tip
> Eyecon I currently have is a spinning rod.
> And this is where building a custom rod specific
> to a particular application will be fantastic.
>
> Do you fish the Detroit Herb?? If so what do you
> prefer in both a spinning and casting rod rod
> setup ?? 6’ or less ??


No, i'm afraid not , as enticing as fishing the Detroit area sounds i stay in a small area on the NC/SC coastline , i do not know Mr.Danek but i'm sure he's a splendid chap .

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.61.---)
Date: March 12, 2019 03:05PM

Herb, I assure you that Michael is a splendid chap. Still have not made contact with my expert, but soon will, I'm sure.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Brad Potter (---.fws.gov)
Date: March 12, 2019 03:36PM

The Rainshadow Immortal IMMWS62MXF builds an excellent rod for this purpose.

Build it KR concept spinning, or simple spiral casting.

I built one a few years back and use it jigging Erie, DR, and Sag River.
It is slightly better in my mind with the heavier jigs (5/8 - 1oz), but still suitable for the lighter jigs in the Saginaw system.

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Re: Detroit/St Clair River Vertical Jigging Rod/Blank Suggestions
Posted by: Ernie Roberts (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 04:56PM

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion Mudhole has exceptional service, and
> I have never had a problem with them. They are
> always more than willing to stand by their
> products. The warranty on their blanks is the best
> I have ever used, it is hassle free and the the
> replacement is shipped very quickly. Just make
> sure you register the blank.on the MHX website. I
> whole heartily endorse them. In fact, I have never
> had any issues with any of the sponsors of this
> site, except for Northfork Composites. They are
> all great and give exceptional service. Don’t
> judge a company by the resonse of a single
> customer service representative who was totally
> unfamiliar with the technique you use. Remember
> their employees live in Florida, where walleye
> fishing is non existent, so they deserve a little
> forgiveness and understanding.
> For a spinning rod setup I would strongly
> recommend the Fuji KR concept.
> Norm

Well after reading your positive response about Mudhole Norm, I certainly feel better, because I’m gearing up to begin my rod building experience as a hobby. I don’t enjoy confrontation so please don’t feel I was in any way attempting to bash the company but as previously mentioned my first attempt at dealing with them wasn’t a positive one so here’s hoping when I call down to place my order fingers crossed it’s a good one. Moving forward

In regards to your suggestion in the Fuji KR Concept system, what would you recommend if I go with say a 6’-6’3” blank for spinning setup as in Smallest/lightest/quality material/s and how many might you suggest to a keen bit green enthusiast as myself ??

Not to complicate further but I’d really like to have a sharp looking handle and reel seat, and being in now going to a spinning configuration, what might you suggest for best feel and sensitivity in regards to solid vs split reel seat, cork vs carbon fibre. Never been a fan of soft foams grips.

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