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Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Bruno Tymczyszyn (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 09, 2019 09:22PM

Hi Everyone,

I can’t help but get into something and have to try and build some part of it myself...

So here I am, going to try and build a rod . (except normally I do boat loads of research before I start)

This time I want to just jump in and build a rod and learn as I go.

I’m going to make a “Fluke Rod” or so I think anyway...

I came across a spiral wound fiberglas blank today, it’s a 6’6” rod labeled “URUxxxx”, I don’t know who makes it or much else about it, but I think it’s the perfect blank for my first build.

Whether it turns out to be a Frankenstein rod or a beauty, I’m sure I’ll learn from the process.

The blank is dirt cheap so I’ll pick some good (Fuji?) guides, Probably spiral wind them, cork the grips (maybe shape myself), not sure of the reel seat yet.

But it will simultaneously be my first rod with a baitcaster reel on it , and the first rod where I finally give in, and try using braided line.


So I thought I’d just throw my outline of a plan out there and see if all the experience on this forrum would guide me in one way or another.

Please chime in, even if it’s telling me I’m being a fool etc...

Thanks !
-Bruno

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Derek Becker (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: March 09, 2019 09:36PM

Wait. What? You have yet to use braided line? Out of curiosity, how could you not have used any yet? To be clear this isn't a jab at you, just truly curious.

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Mark Talmo (71.147.59.---)
Date: March 10, 2019 12:32AM

Bruno,
GOOD FOR YOU! Anyone has to appreciate someone willing to just jump in and do it! While your approach will possibly, if not certainly, produce faults, the best way to learn is from gaining experience from mistakes. Your first rod will be fine and will certainly catch fish. Your second and subsequent others will be even better. Inquire, listen, understand and apply everything the veterans on this site offer. It will flatten your learning curve immensely.
It is not possible to go wrong with Fuji guides and their other components as well. Spiral wrapping the guides is certainly also a positive but others may suggest a conventional guides-on-top for your first build. I am curious as to what others add to your post.
Derek,
Easy dude! I had never used braid until starting to wrap rods 4 years ago, and I have been fishing for over 50 years. That includes Dacron which was the wonder fiber back in the last century.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Bruno Tymczyszyn (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 10, 2019 10:40AM

Derek,

To me braid had 2 disadvantages I couldn’t get by, 1) getting my fingers torn up by using it on a conventional reel when surfasting, or having to grab it bare hand in the surf etc.. 2) The poor abrasion resistance. On the Soth shore of Long Island I’d primarily fish off the jetty’s and the north shore is all rocky on it’s own . ( It may be a wussy excuse, but surfcasting is hard enough, and years later I still don’t know what I’m doing ;)

Basically I just decided not to use it. Been on the fence here and there, but never took the leap.

I sat in on some great seminars (John Skinner, Bill Wetzel, and some great captains) and I decided it’s time to try it.
( On the new rod I’ll be using 10lb Braid with 30lb Flouro leader)

Last year I bought a Bailless Spinner and wound the whole thing with Flourocarbon covered line, it’s the best casting setup I’ve had to date.

Anyway, that’s the story ...

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 10, 2019 10:44AM

you guys are so young-------
I remember stripping my linen line off the reel into the bath tub after a few times fishing to get the salt out so the line would't rot. Way before dacron.
Herb

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: March 10, 2019 12:22PM

Back in the day of knuckle buster reels with no free spool, we used a leather pad attached to the top of the reel for prtecting your thumb from the line during casting, and as additional drag if your reel had one. You just flipped it over away from you when not needed, no reasaon it won't work today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2019 12:29PM by Spencer Phipps.

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 10, 2019 01:56PM

I remember the leather pads also.
Herb

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Jim Upton (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: March 10, 2019 02:18PM

Bruno, if you don't already have the blank, I would question the 4X rating. That usually means a rod rated for heavy line.

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Chuck McIntyre (---.hlrn.qwest.net)
Date: March 10, 2019 05:50PM

I seem to recall that system of blank designation being used by Shakespeare. Or something similar,anyway.

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Bruno Tymczyszyn (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 10, 2019 10:24PM

Wow, Linen line ?

Thanks for making me feel young for once...

I bought a little leather finger pad at some point, never really tried it , probably lost it..

As far as the blank goes the “xxxx” is basically me forgetting what the numbers were..

It was a URU with 4 or so digits... 6376 or something like that...

For some idiotic reason I thought I would remember it when I left the shop..

If I stop by the shop this week I’ll write it down or snap a pic.

I’ll look into the Shakespere angle, Thanks .

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: March 11, 2019 08:43AM

For what its worth, ive never used braid either... Lol

Your gonna have fun.. Your gonna get frustrated... Be CAREFUL there is absolutly noting that can help with this addiction... ;)

Ask many many questions... Fuji guides are the sure shot.. Cant go wrong there as previously stated.. For attaching the guides, may I suggest going with a size D thread... A is thin, D is a bit thicker.. Alot easier to work with when your starting

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Bruno Tymczyszyn (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 12:07AM

Thanks Anthony,

Your response immediately gets the questions flowing..

1) This may sound nuts, but I have a wood lathe. is it crazy to smooth down a spiral wound glass rod ?

To clarify, I found a crazy cheap blank that you can follow the spirals from the base to the tip... Assuming I misted with water or wore a respirator can I / should i smooth this blank out ?

(i saw a respected Brit rod builder on u tube doing a repair, and he says he's taken blanks down to the raw graphite )


Is that a mistake with fiberglass ?

You would think there's plenty of overlap , and I wouldn't be messing with the integrity of the blank.. but then again, what the @#$%& do i know.


2) I'm 80% through restoring a Singer Sewing Machine from 1918 my father bought, and who the @#$%& knew there were grades of thread !

Of course i assumed there were different threads and thicknesses, but is this a 'global' kind of thing ? or are there special gauges or something for this type of work ?

My guess is just about anything impregnated and under a massive coat of Epoxy will do, but is there a 'normal' thread ? Nylon ? Or is it from Cotton to Kevlar and you take your pick ?

Thanks,
-Bruno

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 01:58AM

Wow... Slow down there killer lol

First, i wouldnt get tour rod blank anywhere near your wood lathe... Think about it for a second... Take a 1/2 inch pine dowel, hold it at the end and shake the @#$%& out of it... Notice how the wood flexs... Now do the same with your blank.. Now with that in mind, think about what can happen at 750 rpm.. Lol before you can reach for the off switch youll have bits of rod inbeded in your arm.. Or worse...
Point is, the dynamics of a fishing rod can cause a failure almost instantly when oscillating at ay speed.. It will happen so fast you wont know what happen...

If you want to smooth the blank just get wet/dry sand paper.. I dont suggest going lower then 320.. I use A bowl of water, 320, 600, 2000, a 3000 buffing pad, then finish with the back of the pad, its like a soft cloth.. You will be surprised at how easily material comes off.. I can get a blank perfectly smooth in under 10 min. Anymore... Long slow strokes with even pressure.. The kicker is to sand evenly...

Even with the cheap blanks, they wrapped the material the way they did for a reason.. You can really screw up a rods action and power by removing material.. Adversly, once you get a better understanding, you can improve the blanks prdformance this way...

A good rule of thumb is any blank material removed, WILL effect the rods preformance, just as adding anything, like mlre thread wraps, or guides, will do the same..

Get a better understanding of how they are constructed before playing around like that lol

Removing the fiberglass would most certainly effect the rods integrity i would think.. Depending on how much material you remove.. They are overlapped in alternaring directions depending on where you are on the blank usually.. I screwed up an ugly stik by taking 3 passes with 320 grit... Granted the blank was verry old and fairly dry rotten in places, but the point here is i made a 'thin' spot... Caused a failure under load... Oops... Lol

Im not 100% sure if the thread is a standardized system, but for winding threads the most common to the best of my knowledge are nylon and silk.. Ranging from AAAA to EE.. AAAA is thinner then hair, and EE is basically 1/32" typically nylon is used in size A by alot of builders, has a very nice finish, but is thin so harder to wkrk with.. A,B,C,And D are the most common. To the best of my knowledge..

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 02:01AM

Wow... Slow down there killer lol

First, i wouldnt get tour rod blank anywhere near your wood lathe... Think about it for a second... Take a 1/2 inch pine dowel, hold it at the end and shake the @#$%& out of it... Notice how the wood flexs... Now do the same with your blank.. Now with that in mind, think about what can happen at 750 rpm.. Lol before you can reach for the off switch youll have bits of rod inbeded in your arm.. Or worse...
Point is, the dynamics of a fishing rod can cause a failure almost instantly when oscillating at ay speed.. It will happen so fast you wont know what happen...

If you want to smooth the blank just get wet/dry sand paper.. I dont suggest going lower then 320.. I use A bowl of water, 320, 600, 2000, a 3000 buffing pad, then finish with the back of the pad, its like a soft cloth.. You will be surprised at how easily material comes off.. I can get a blank perfectly smooth in under 10 min. Anymore... Long slow strokes with even pressure.. The kicker is to sand evenly...

Even with the cheap blanks, they wrapped the material the way they did for a reason.. You can really screw up a rods action and power by removing material.. Adversly, once you get a better understanding, you can improve the blanks prdformance this way...

A good rule of thumb is any blank material removed, WILL effect the rods preformance, just as adding anything, like mlre thread wraps, or guides, will do the same..

Get a better understanding of how they are constructed before playing around like that lol

Removing the fiberglass would most certainly effect the rods integrity i would think.. Depending on how much material you remove.. They are overlapped in alternaring directions depending on where you are on the blank usually.. I screwed up an ugly stik by taking 3 passes with 320 grit... Granted the blank was verry old and fairly dry rotten in places, but the point here is i made a 'thin' spot... Caused a failure under load... Oops... Lol

Im not 100% sure if the thread is a standardized system, but for winding threads the most common to the best of my knowledge are nylon and silk.. Ranging from AAAA to EE.. AAAA is thinner then hair, and EE is basically 1/32" typically nylon is used in size A by alot of builders, has a very nice finish, but is thin so harder to wkrk with.. A,B,C,And D are the most common. To the best of my knowledge.. There is nylons coated with color preservers so they dont become translucent. And some without.. Silk if kept clean while applying becomes completly translucent.. Cool stuff...

Im sure others will correct anything ive said, or chime in with other comments.. But please dont blow a rod up on,your lathe man lol

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Bruno Tymczyszyn (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 06:35PM

Hi Anthony,

I guess the way I just put it out there i understand your response, it's a variable speed lathe and it wouldn't be just whipping in the breeze. I'd have it on some type dead center etc.

Any who, i get your point, and I'm almost in agreement.

I may go to the Tackle shop tomorrow, in which case i'll take a photo of the Blank A) to get the full number on it, and B) to show what it actually looks like.

Thanks for the thread info, that'll bee coming up soon enough.

-Bruno

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.sub-174-201-5.myvzw.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 08:52PM

I figured it was a variable speed, just thought it necessary to speak my comcern.. Of not for you, another guy starting up that stumbles across this.. Lol

I have a power wrapper with a variable speed foot petal along with a wood lathe.. Both have thier purposes, and do thier job verry well

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: March 13, 2019 12:56PM

Bruno,
As long as you have a variable speed on your wood lathe, it is perfectly fine to use the lathe to clean up a blank and remove the spiral ridges on the blank.

You want to have a rod support about every two feet, and you want the variable speed on the motor to be able to control the speed from 0 to its maximum speed. Start with the speed at 0 and gradually increase it. As soon, as you start seeing any blank bounce or oscillation, slow the motor down to just below that point. You may also find, that if you move one or more of the rod rests just a bit, you can change the harmonic balance point of the blank to be able to run the blank at full speed - with no issues.

When I first started wrapping, a long time ago, I did all of my grip work on a full length rod lathe with a single speed 3600 rpm motor. I just had to be very very very careful, when first starting the lathe that the rod rests were in the correct spot.

I would put the first rod rest about an inch in front of the handle, because I wanted the handle to be rock solid so that I could shape it as needed with the rod spinning at 3600 rpm. I would start ans stop the motor initially, while feeling for the null spot on the blank, for the next rod rest location. i.e. by placing the rod rest in the null spot - or spot where there was no wiggle or bounce in the blank, the rod rest would not cause any blank oscillation to increase. Then, I would go onto the 3rd rod rest, then the 4th rod rest and finally near the tip, I would put the final rod rest. Once I had all of the rod rests in position and locked down, I could do what I wanted at will to the grip and or blank with no issue about having the blank destroy itself.

-------------
But, if I tried the same thing with a finished rod, the guides all on the same side caused a huge imbalance issue and would lead to rod destruction. However, I did successfully work on a few finished rods with the full length rod lathe - as long as I would tape on two or three guides of similar size to the guides on the rod, except that I would tape the guides on the opposite side of the blank to counteract the weight of the in line guides on the finished rod.

A while back, I had a need to work on a finished rod. I had put away my full length 3600 rpm a long time ago. But, I happened to have a very robust DC motor with an integrated speed controller to be able to vary the rpm from 0-2400 rpm. I had previously set up this motor with a pair of jack shafts and bearings that allowed me to use a 3-inch chuck with a 3/4 inch back plate to use to hold the finished rod, and then, added rod supports to temporarily support the rest of the rod on a temporary full length rod setup.

This is a picture of that temporary setup:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Recently, I was in a local surplus store and after finding the wheels that I needed for a dryer project ran across a reasonably sized DC motor of 120 volts DC with a 10 mm output shaft.
I bought it and after bringing it to the shop, rummaged around and found my 0-120V AC variac - that had been sitting in a storage box for the last many years. I also rummaged around and found an 8 amp full bridge rectifier. I connected the full bridge rectifier to an ac wall plug cord and then connected the wall plug to the AC variac. I connected the output of the bridge rectifier to the DC motor. Perfect. Nice smooth variable speed from 0 to its maximum motor rpm which I believe is about 2000 rpm. I am guessing that the motor is about 1/5th to 1/4 hp . I plan on putting a cogged belt XL pulley on the motor and connect it to another XL pulley that I would mount on an extra Taig head stock which will accept my Taig 3 inch chuck. Then, I will have a nice compact power source to be used for on the rod grip shaping or any other need that I have for a higher hp - variable speed 0-2000 rpm lathe motor.

Never can tell what one might find in a surplus store for a very very very reasonable price.

Good luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2019 01:04PM by roger wilson.

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.44.102.191.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: March 13, 2019 01:12PM

wow... Thats... Awesome...

Lol thats awesome info.. If your looking to go a little less hard core.. (Absolutly no offence there, im acually jealous.. I can never find stuff like that) just find a old sewing machine.. Foot petals already wired in, and the mortor is strong enough to turn cork.. Makes for a great power wrapper too..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2019 01:14PM by Anthony Unger.

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Re: Fiberglass Wound Rod Blank (First Build)
Posted by: Bruno Tymczyszyn (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 14, 2019 09:12PM

Thanks for the info Roger,

I really like the 3 wheel stabilization you have going on there, i would absolutely do something like that.

Did you use a Lathe / Turning Tool ? Or Sandpaper ?


So as it turns out, I got the Blank number wrong, it's a USU86-4 an Ugly Stick.

The other turned out to be an American Tackle AXLB70M Live Bait Rod Blank
7'0" | 15-40 lb. | 3/4 - 3 oz. | Extra Fast Action | Medium Power | 1 Piece | 7.5 Tip | 0.879 Butt

I might buy both :)

I have pics and thought I knew how to upload them but apparently i don't... Gotta run

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