When using the Fuji GPS system why does it give me a different choke point for different guides such as KL, KW, and KL-H's? I thought the choke point was determined by the upswing in the reel's spool shaft? What am I missing here?

There is specific software for the different guides. It is logical that the choke point would change with different guide designs in front of it. It is my opinion that the upswing of the reel shaft is pretty insignificant even though it has been one of the parameters determining layouts with some systems. I think my opinion is backed up the fact that the Fuji GPS for "KR Concept" does not have that parameter in the software. This software does a great job of setting up effective spacing and guide size selection.

So the diagram on Fuji's site is misleading?
[anglersresource.net]

This is what I'm having trouble with. If I try to mimic the diagram with my Stradic 400 Ci4, the choke point goes up 3/4 of the shaft. That cannot be right? Right?

I think ngc and KR concept are slightly different and not interchangeable. But you would want to double check that with someone more knowledgeable then I.
Scott

What is 3/4 of your "shaft?" In inches from the butt. About 52-55 inches is probably about right for choke to butt. What guides are you using? What line pound test do you plan? Braid or mono/FC? Where is the tip of the reel shaft relative to the butt? Which Fuji GPS system are you using? There are two on their site, I use KR GPS with KLH reduction guides.

Does all this fine tuning of guide trains mean you have to build a new rod whenever you get a new reel or change from 12# mono to 25# mono or when you switch from mono to braid? Or do the KR and other concepts ignore such details? For that matter, nylon and fluorocarbon monofilament come of a spinning rod spool much differently at eighty-six degrees than they do at forty-two degrees. Do you need a different rod for each temperature extreme of do you just go with the average, as I do?

Dennis Penton Wrote:
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> So the diagram on Fuji's site is misleading?
> [anglersresource.net]
> ept(NGC).aspx
>
> This is what I'm having trouble with. If I try to
> mimic the diagram with my Stradic 400 Ci4, the
> choke point goes up 3/4 of the shaft. That cannot
> be right? Right?



Dennis, stop confusing the NGC with the KR concept , follow the KR concept guidelines you're confusing the two . You have KR concept guides so follow the KR guidelines . The link you posted is for the NGC .

Michael Danek Wrote:
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> What is 3/4 of your "shaft?" In inches from the
> butt. About 52-55 inches is probably about right
> for choke to butt. What guides are you using?
> What line pound test do you plan? Braid or
> mono/FC? Where is the tip of the reel shaft
> relative to the butt? Which Fuji GPS system are
> you using? There are two on their site, I use KR
> GPS with KLH reduction guides.


Sorry I meant to say rod. The choke point with one measurement was 64 in. from tip of reel shaft.
I'm planning on using 20# braid.
Rod butt to tip of reel shaft (Mid length), is 16 7/8in.
I was not aware of 2 programs. I'm using the GPS. It asks me for 3 reel measurements and then has a tab to select the guides. I'm using KL-H guides.

This is the software you want: [anglersresource.net]

For an 84 inch blank and your measurements you will get the following result: 5 running guides, your choice of size, stripper = 20h, next 10h, next 5.5m, spacing is all given to you, but the choke comes out to be 57.51 from the butt. Stripper is at 21.5 from the spool axle tip. It is 21.5 and not 19 or 20 because of the 4000 reel size. Go to the link above and try it, please report back how it came out. I did it for an 84 in blank.

Dennis the below is why you're confused , the below link IS NOT the correct method for what you're doing .

[anglersresource.net]


The correct theory is the below :

[anglersresource.net]


Michaels info above is what you should follow .


Since you bought the guide kit which DOES NOT come with the most recommended guides it's not all bad news . You said you're using 20 pound braid so just use the 25H instead of the 20H , the 12 H instead of the 10 H and the 5.5 M .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2019 02:41PM by herb canter.

Ok I think much of the confusion is gone, as I was using the wrong program and trying to make them both work. I really appreciate your help on this.
So now if I use the 25H instead of the 20H, and the 12H instead of the 10H, doesn't the location on the rod change a bit? I thought, as a general rule, that larger guides move further back on the blank?
Also do I leave out the 7M, and go right to the 5.5L?

Oh 2 more things: The KR interface asks if I'm building a Conventional or Micro? I'm a little doubtful on this? The running guides are 5J.
Can I make the reduction guides 25, 12, 7 and have the 5.5 be my choke guide? I thought the choke guide had to be a running guide (in my case a 5J)?

Two different concepts, the New Guide Concept (has been around for close to 30 yrs) vs the KR Concept which is a rapid choke refinement of the NGC. The KR concept was designed for use with braided line and microguide runners and uses high frame small ring guides for the reduction train which rapidly controls, and chokes the line so it smoothly enters the low profile icroguide runners. That why the choke point differ between these two different concepts.
Norm

Yes you can use a 5.5 as the choke guide. And yes the choke guide is considered a running guide, but that doesn't mean you have to use the same size guide as the rest of your runners. If you noticed, there is a drawing in the KR GPS that shows how your reduction train and choke guide should line up. If you notice, the choke guide is the guide that is not bullseyed. The tip is to increase the space between the last reduction guide and the choke guide to help your line "turn the corner. The slightly taller choke guide is going to help it turn the corner.

Dennis Penton Wrote:
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" So now if I use the 25H instead of the 20H, and the 12H instead of the 10H, doesn't the location on the rod change a bit? I thought, as a general rule, that larger guides move further back on the blank? Also do I leave out the 7M, and go right to the 5.5L"



The guide location will change minimally but you DO NOT need to change the location , just substitute the 25H for the 20H and the 12H for the 10H & depending on what the layout looks like you can actually use the 7 M and use the 5.5L as the choke which will give you a 4 guide reduction train . Most like a 3 guide reduction train but going from a 12H to a 5.5 L may not be ideal it's a little short . Thats why i say you can use the 7M between the 12H and 5.5 L making use of as many guides that come in the kit as possible.

After the 5.5 L just use size 5 runners , i don't even know if those kits come with a KB foot for the choke but if they don't just use regular 5.5 L regardless of what guide foot is on it , then use the size 5 runners they included and you DO NOT need to use all of them , just use enough to follow the natural contour of the rod when bent . There are NO set rules just recommendations .




Now on to your question about the conventional or micro , you will be using the micro setup and you should choose braid up to 20 pounds when the GPS software shows the line types choose the correct line type . Use the 5.5 L and your choke guide and use the regular size 5 guides as runners.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2019 09:41PM by herb canter.

I redo of my previous post. For some reason it didn't register with me that the choke guide being questioned is an L. My brain was thinking KB. Others more familiar with spinning rod guides than me, are going to have to answer that question for you.

One thing I will say is, the guide sets I've seen offered are evidently chosen and packaged to accommodate a wide range of line types, reel sizes, and to a lesser extent, rod lengths. The number of guides they contain may or may not be the number of guides an individual needs to produce the rod they are building. The KR GPS is more specific. yet from what I've seen, specifies guide sizes that will work well on a pretty wide variety of rods. The number of running guides the KR GPS recommends is just that, a recommendation.

My guess is that most everyone that has responded in this thread use at least one more running guide than the software recommends. The action of one blank versus another, and the builders preference for how closely the line's path follows the curve of the blank plays a part in the equation.

good stuff David and i would like to add that the closer the line comes to the rods curve the closer you come to obtaining the rods maximum power and responsiveness and sensitivity..

The choke point shouldn't change with the NCG system, the position of the first few guides can however between the reel and choke guide.

Oh no lol , every post in this thread has attempted to get Dennis to completely remove all thoughts of the NGC & concentrate just on the KR guidelines since he is finding it exceedingly difficult to separate the KR from the NGC , he's got to be more confused than ever now , probably heaved his rod building equipment out the window and took up bowling.

No no no. It's getting clearer. I do appreciate the input and I think I will do as suggested by simply replacing the the recommended guides with the ones I have.
Standby for step 2, laying out my running guides.