I just started building rods. Finished my second one tonight. My first 2 were on MHX blanks got a couple Phenix to wrap and a couple NFC X-Rays. Price was too good to not try them. I got a few questions. Long time lurker.

First was a casting micro on a MHX MB843. I have fished it a little bit and it's definitely a better rod then the Fenwicks I've bought in the past. Got a couple mid-level rods that it is about on par to.

Attaching guides I've taped them glued them and tied them on works okay but they tend to slide a bit until you get a couple wraps on them especially those darn micros. Ended up having to file them to get them wrapped is that normal? Saw a post mentioning orthodontist bands picked some up today will try that on the next one.

Do you try to get your guides perfect before wrapping or do you just get them close and tweak them before epoxy?

Load testing. I can see how this is vitally important in the process. The last one I did took quite a bit of time cause attaching those micros was a real PITA. How do you guys attach for testing?

Starting wraps on the stripper and reduction isn't hard but once you get to the tip it can be aggravating. Any advice?

How far do you start your wraps before guide? Right now I've got a few that have a pretty good distance before the guide I know this is not ideal as it takes away the crispness of the blank. Do you mark the start of the foot on the blank or the ring? I did the ring on first couple thinking of changing this up.

Can you used a color pencil to mark your blank? First one I used a China marker. I kept breaking off and didn't like not be able to be ultra precise. 2nd one was a white blank so I used an ultra fine tipped Sharpie and really liked that. Much easier and didn't have to press real hard to get it to write.

Comparing a couple blanks the MHX and Phenix come finished with a clear coat epoxy or paint on the blank. NFC come really rough. Which doesn't bother me. Do you have to finish it? Will finishing it affect the integrity of the blank?

Winding checks really serve no function other than to dress a rod up. But on split seats you almost need them to make a rod look decent. Which means you have to mock up and mic the blank in order to get the right size. What are the most common and what do you use the most?

Arbors. I have tried the Fuji carbons they don't work very well. I broke 75% of them trying to ream them out to the correct size. Finally gave up and used tape on the Phenix split seat I'm working on. I saw PacBay has some of the Omni Arbors I ordered a few haven't got them yet but do they work well or is it better to just use tape and extra epoxy?

I guess this is a start and will have more when they come to mind.

Lots off question LOL

For wrapping those micro this is what I do :
- I dress the foot (very little work).
- I place them using Fuji hot glue (red tube).
- I pre wrap then using size D thread (I only do 6/7 turn near the eye leaving place at the foot).
- I tweak the guide in the correct position (perfectly in line).
- I then wrap them (easy to lose the D wrap with a nail to put it off)

With this method no need to adjust them after wrapping (just check), they won’t slip during wrapping and finally same time for me.

For how many wrap before climbing on the guide foot, for me lees is better, that mean for me one or two wrap for micro and 3 to 5 for réduction guide.

For stating testing, keep in mind the load should be applied to the top (no by the line with run thru the guide, so yes you need two line on fixed to the tip to load and one running thru the guide to check position). So little force applied to guide, Scott tape or rubber band do the job to place the guide.


For the blank : don’t add anything to them, any weight you add (and you can add a lot with paint or varnish) will make it less responsive.

________________________________________
@+
Eric
[www.emfishing.fr]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2019 03:06AM by Eric MONTACLAIR.

Make yourself a gauge, strip of metal is what I use most of the time . Lay it on the blank touching the guide foot tip and mark the other side as my starting point. Cut a strip of plastic or metal, what ever with your comfortable using.

Tubing slices or ortho bands to hold the guides in place. One in front of the guide to keep it from moving up the blank and one near the center of the guide foot to hold it in place. That typically forces the guide foot to stay in full contact with the blank. The bands also allow for tweaking the guide position on the blank during static testing.

We use rubber bands, or something like ortho bands, and sometimes just masking tape to start the layout.
That allows some force to be put on the blank with line running thru to see where guides need adjusting.
Whatever works for you that will hold them and still allow you to adjust position.
Then, I measure from the tip down, taking measurements between each guide ring.
Write them all down, remove the guides, clean blank.
Then, using the written measurements, start at the tip and wrap down.
Get them close as to axis, but finish final tweaking when all done.
That way you can double check and adjust as needed before finishing.
For the small guides, Flex Coat Guide Glue is a low temp answer.
If you get interrupted, just refer to your notes and double check .
And for marking where the guide goes, a very soft lead pencil sharpened makes a small mark.
Make the mark just where the end of the guide foot will go, so as to be covered by thread.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

Jacob:

" How far do you start your wraps before guide? Right now I've got a few that have a pretty good distance before the guide I know this is not ideal as it takes away the crispness of the blank"

" Winding checks really serve no function other than to dress a rod up"

" Starting wraps on the stripper and reduction isn't hard but once you get to the tip it can be aggravating"

" Do you try to get your guides perfect before wrapping or do you just get them close and tweak them before epoxy"

" Can you used a color pencil to mark your blank? First one I used a China marker. I kept breaking off and didn't like not be able to be ultra precise"

"Arbors. I have tried the Fuji carbons they don't work very well. I broke 75% of them trying to ream them out to the correct size. Finally gave up and used tape on the Phenix split seat I'm working on. I saw PacBay has some of the Omni Arbors I ordered a few haven't got them yet but do they work well or is it better to just use tape and extra epoxy"


# 1 ) I start my wraps very close to the beginning of the foot, probably 5 wraps around the blank and thats it before i'm already hitting the metal portion of the bottom of the foot. I do that because other than the thread that is actually making contact with the guide foot it's just waste and serves zero purpose especially when you add up all the extra thread that are on most guide wraps you see these days . I would say in many cases there is more thread at the end of wraps than there is actually making contact with the guide foot and it does nothing but add weight , don't forget all that extra thread will also be coated with epoxy .

#2) Agree 100% on winding checks and often avoid using them .

# 3) For the ultra small guides i place a very thin piece of tape at the very end of the guide foot closest to the ring , i then wrap the start of the foot until it holds by thread tension alone . i then shuffle back and forth lightly packing the threads towards the beginning of the guide foot while wrapping closer to the ring end .

#4) I set my guides very precisely before wrapping but adjustments are always required during at after finished wrapping and before epoxy .


#5) I use the China Markers they work well enough , never used a colored pencil so can't answer that question. I always cut pointed strips of tape and use those to pinpoint exactly where the guide needs to be as well as use the China Markers.


#6) No you don't have to use arbor's many use tape , the Omni arbors are new but i know Tom said they were unique and interesting .


Unfinished blanks question , no you do not have to finish it , no harm done leave it alone.

I haven't used any guides yet, that I didn't feel needed a little work to flatten the ramp out a little more. For me, that little bit of extra time taken in prep, pays off two fold when it comes time to wrap the guides. And be sure to de-bur the sides and bottom of the guide foot after doing any filing type work on them.

I use pretty high thread tension when wrapping, so I always try to get my guides real close to being right, when I wrap them. I tweak them once or twice more, before applying finish.

I use the various size tubing that Mud Hole sells for holding on guides, to attach them to blank. I cut as many bands as I think I'll need, accounting for the number of feet on each guide, and slide them on to the blank. I always put on 2 o3 extra bands as well, just in case. After I slide the bands onto the blank, I put on my tip top. I use my old hand wrapper to hold my rod for static testing. I set the rod up in that and I put an old casting reel that I have in the reel seat. The reel has about 25' of 65# test, yellow braided line on it. I use that line because it's easy to see. I thread all of my guides (including one or 2 more running guides than I think I may need) onto the braided line and then thread the line through the tip top, and tie the end to a 3/8 oz casting weight. The 3/8 oz weight is just to keep tension on the line the guides are hung on.

As mentioned earlier, I too use two lines for doing static load. I use 15# mono that I thread through the frame of the tip top. (not through the guide itself) That 15# mono is the line I use to load the rod with. I tie that line off to a gallon milk jug that I fill with water. I do static load a little differently from some of the ways I've read to do it. Some articles suggest loading the rod and positioning the guides in stages. Tweaking guide position as the load on the rod increases. Personally only I fully load the rod when positioning guides. I am more concerned where the guides are when the rod is under a heavy load, than I am when it isn't quite as fully loaded. I use the definition of a fully loaded rod per CCS. Meaning the rod blank is deflected 33% of the rod's total length. I build mostly casting rods, so the first guide I attach to the blank is the butt, or stripper guide. Usually in the neighborhood of 21" from the face of the reel. A little more or a little less, depending on rod length. After that I position all of the guides using static load. I don't like the line to touch the blank, so I position the guides with that in mind. Using the tubing or something similar, makes it pretty easy to attach each successive guide, and it makes it fairly easy to slide them along the length of the blank.

I start my wraps about 5 or 6 turns in front of the guide foot, and I use a white china marker to mark them. On double foot guides I place the mark right under the ring of the guide. On single foot guides I place the mark right at the front of the ring of the guide.

No you don't have to put finish on the X ray blank. I actually don't like the roughness of the X ray blanks, so I sanded the entire blank of the 2 X ray blanks I am currently building on. Even after sanding, you don't need to put finish on it.

I've only used aluminum winding checks a couple of times, and yes you have to measure the diameter of the blank where they will be positioned. It's just part of using aluminum winding checks. I use black rubber winding checks most often. They're inexpensive so I have a few on hand in the sizes most common to the types of blanks I build on. I like them to fit snugly on the blank. Not too tight, not to loose.

Personally, if I have to make more than two or three wraps of masking tape around the blank to make a component fit, I'm going to use a foam arbor instead. Nothing wrong with using masking tape, I just avoid using it if I can. I've never used the Fuji arbors you mention. The ones I use I think are Flex Coat polyurethane foam arbors. Too avoid breaking them while reaming, if you're not doing it already, is to glue it inside the component you are using them with, and then ream them. That way when their wall thickness starts to diminish, they won't split out. Doing it that way also makes it easier to keep a nice straight line as you're reaming them.

To place rod guides "just so" I go to a sewing supply store and buy some "elastic thread". It's cheap. I put a guide in the right vicinity, take five or six turns of elastic thread around the guide foot, stretching it and pulling it tight and tie a square knot in the thread and trim the ends. Now I can easily (and endlessly) "micro-adjust" the guide's placement. Then It's easy to slide the elastic thread wraps along the blank and up the guide foot to achieve a perfect (!) placement. I start my permanent wrap and continue it up about halfway up the guide foot - until it holds the guide firmly in place - the then just touch the taut elastic thread with a razor blade and it leaps off the blank, leaving no gummy residue of any sort. Then I complete wrapping the thread and pull the tag end taut under the wraps for the whip finish. I repeat the whole process on the other guide foot, if there is one. No goo, no gum, no clean-up.

Winding checks can also serve a functional purpose. They help block or fill in the slight gap from reaming your handle material and the blank. I add a short length of thread trim in a complementary color, coat with thread epoxy to seal the whole deal. Keeps water from seeping under your handle material.

Ray Zarychta
Glastonbury, CT

Ray Zarychta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Winding checks can also serve a functional
> purpose. They help block or fill in the slight gap
> from reaming your handle material and the blank. I
> add a short length of thread trim in a
> complementary color, coat with thread epoxy to
> seal the whole deal. Keeps water from seeping
> under your handle material.


Thats true , i tend to use shrink tubing of some kind for foregrips which shrink tight up and over that spot so water intrusion is a non factor. I only build surf rods .

Thanks for the input guys. I'm a LMB and SMB fisherman. Love to hook a good smallie on a float tube nothing better. Other than when a smallie takes a run and starts spinning you around like a top. 2.5-3 lber circles you until your dizzy on 4-6lb test. Been reading a bunch about acid wrapping will be experimenting on this. I just think for the money I can produce a rod in the $500-600 class for about $250-400 depending on the sales for components. I really am excited about my NFC builds and my Phenix builds. Ordered all of these initially to compare quality of blanks for price.

My MHX builds were the learning curve to see if I could produce one and they were cheap and definitely perform well. My first rod I think is definitely in the $150 range for off the shelf. I'm sure once I get these better blanks done they will blow my mind.

What guide series do you think brings most bang for buck? Talking Fuji as I think they are a step above the rest?

Also got a NFC IM 663-1 I'm gonna turn into a BFS rod. Be great for 1/4oz tubes and such topped with a Shimano Conquest Calcutta 50 and 8lb Seaguar Abrazx Fluor. Looking hard at getting a Shimano BFS reel to match up with a DS 6107 blank as well. One of my favorite rigs is a 2/0 EWG Gamatsu with a Yamamoto Fat Baby Craw with or without a bullet weight Texas rigged. Killer rig. On my MHX caught 35 smallies November 1.

Jacob, sounds like you have a good plan going. As for best bang for the buck goes, any of the Fuji guides with Alconite rings. They're great guides. If you're looking to step up a little for any of your builds, the Fuji T2 dark grey titanium with slim SIC rings are really really nice. I am using them on the 2 builds I have going right now. They cost probably three times what a SS frame Alconite ringed guide would cost, but they feel at least twice as light. I'd weigh them but my scale isn't sensitive enough to read them singularly.

A question for you about the DS 6107 blank you mentioned. Is that a blank you already have, or is it one you may be ordering in the future? The reason I ask is, I built a rod on a DS6107 IM blank last year. That blank has very little power. It was the first and only blank I have purchased that had the DS designation, it was a way different animal than I was hoping it would be. I expected it to be light powered, but I was hoping it was more of a traditional type spinning rod blank. Meaning a nice light extra fast tip and a decent back bone. It doesn't have much of a back bone at all.

It's my drop shot rod until I build another one here in the near future. Once I do, it is going to be my Ned rig rod. It works pretty well for those. Other than that it's pretty much a panfish rod. It's a shame too, because I get a lot of compliments on the looks of the rod. I wish it fished as good as it looks.

David,

The one I have is going on a spinning reel. I'm thinking out in the future a lot! Mocked it up tonight CF grips and a TVS seat hidden cover lock ring with the Fuji CF sleeve and accents. It looks pretty snazzy. Once I get my order from MH in I can epoxy 3-4 rods together then start setting guides and that fun stuff. Then get those built. I'm thinking that rod will be awesome for DS Ned rigs light or weightless Texas and tube rig or at least that's what I have in mind for it. The rod I currently fish with that reel is nice JM Carbonlite 2.0 but when I compare it to my MHX 843 the 843 is way more sensitive. Time will tell. It's my only spinning setup prefer BC.

Last summer a buddy of mine pulled in a pair of 10 lb stripers on a Lew's Speed Stick Lite Dock Sniper. It was funny him calling for a net and him dropping another rod off in the drink that I caught before we lost it. Then netting his and in the mean time with my rod on the deck I hooked into a 3lb smallie. Drag started screaming at me. It was Chaos!!! But so much fun.

I have gotten 3 different guide sets I'm gonna test. Got some of those T2. I could put them on my reloading scale and give some comparisons if you want me too.

Jacob Nebeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have gotten 3 different guide sets I'm gonna
> test. Got some of those T2. I could put them on my
> reloading scale and give some comparisons if you
> want me too.

I'd be curious of weight savings of the T2 rings vs say the SS framed ones if you had them. Trying to decide myself on what set to use :)

Darwin Wong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jacob Nebeker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I have gotten 3 different guide sets I'm gonna
> > test. Got some of those T2. I could put them on
> my
> > reloading scale and give some comparisons if
> you
> > want me too.
>
> I'd be curious of weight savings of the T2 rings
> vs say the SS framed ones if you had them. Trying
> to decide myself on what set to use :)


I will put them on a scale tomorrow I got a second set I will compare them to.