I am very new to rod building and can't quite get an answer for making the most sensitive rod possible. I have a 6"3" St. Croix SCV Medium X Fast blank that I will be building this rod with and this biggest question I have when it comes to building this rod is the guides. I am pretty sure I will be using Recoil guides but not sure how many. Everything chart I have found suggests between 7 and 10 guides.

Does more guides mean more sensitivity?

Are there more sensitive guides than the Recoils?

I am also not too worried about casting distance so if adding a guide or 2 reduces distance but increases sensitivity I would opt for that sensitivity option.

Any other tips for increased sensitivity would be greatly appreciated!!!

More guides= more weight. Less guides lighter weight. Lighter weight=more sensitivity.

Thanks.

So I guess my next question is are there any guides out there lighter than the Recoil guides that will still hold up to braided line?

Pac Bay minima. I don't know if they're lighter but they're really light and hold up to braid.

I have built several SCV, SCIV, and SC III & IV jigging rods. I have used Fuji SIC and Alconite guides as well as CRB Elite and LZR guides on these rods.
Ended up using the Fuji Grey Alconite KL-H as the go-to guide. Eight guides on 6' blanks and nine guides on the 6'3' blanks. Personally, hard to tell the difference between the SIC and Alconite guides - in my opinion, SIC are simply not worth the extra $ - unless the customer wants them. Rods seem to perform well with eight or nine guides and any of these guides will perform very well with braid.

Hope that helps!

What line and reel you use makes a difference. My river rods are not laid out like my lake rods. Heavier lines, rods, and heavier jigs, etc. are used in current.

I will be using a shimano stratic 1000 with 8# Suffix 832, and most of the time I would say we are pitching 1/4 oz jigs. I'm thinking I will do 8 guides starting with a size 16, 12, 10, 8, 7, 6, 6, 6.

Like I said I am fairly new to this so if anyone sees something wrong with this please let me know.

Forget the chart recommendations , those are just generalizations , what reel you plan to use would be a big help in recommendations going forward , i am not very familiar with the recoils and their weight compared to Minima's or Fuji titaniums but those 3 options would be the type that would fit in making an exceptionally sensitive rod as would a carbon fiber grip .

Choosing the smallest guides you can get away with will also help in achieving the most sensitive rod possible. Choosing a lightweight superline or braid will help and Berkeley's Fireline has less stretch than most other braids like Power Pro for example . Fireline has a stretch factor of between 2-4 % while most braided lines have a stretch factor between 4 - 6% , yes i know not major but with sensitivity every bit helps .

With a Stradic 1000 and 8 pound Sufix 832 go with much smaller runners , i use size 5 runners on my 11 foot surf rods and never have any issues .

Travis have you typed in the info for your blank , see what Fuji spits out .


[anglersresource.net]

Personally, i found that the 16mm butt guide too small. I changed to a 20mm butt guide and had much better results. 20, 12, 8, and 5mm for runners. This is what I use and is by no means necessarily the best way or right way. I have found this works well for me so I have stuck with it. Like Spencer said, reel size and guide placement according to that reel makes a big difference as well.

Typically, you should not need more than three reduction guides, (20, 12, 8) before the runners.

I would agree with Rod IF his reel had a larger spool diameter but it's a 1000 and he's using 8 pound braid , for a little over a 6 foot rod the 20 is way overkill , i use a 5000 size Stradic with 10 pound 832 and found the KL-H 20 way overkill .




Travis , do whatever you feel is right , all i am doing is giving you my personal experience after relentlessly testing and retesting these exact guide trains based on what you say is most important ( MAXIMUM SENSITIVITY) , good luck to you .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2019 03:41PM by herb canter.

I dislike recoil guides for a spinning rod because they are very noisy and have a very low height for the ring size. For a 6’3” rod using a 1000 size reel with light braid a KR concept will give you an exceptional guide train, that is both light and sensitive. For the reduction train, I would use Fuji KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M, followed by KB/KT runners all the same size, in a size of your choice (5.5, 5, 4.5, or 4). I mostly use a size 5 or 4.5 runners, with a KB guide serving as the choke guide. The stripper guide will be at 18.5 - 19” from the front of the reel spool and the choke (first runner) will be approximately 18 - 19” in front of the stripper. The other two reduction guides would be placed progressively between the stripper and choke guides, and the runners would be placed using static testing. I would use at least 5 running guides, for 8 guides total, not counting the tip top. If you want a lighter guide train then use Minima Match (M) guides of the same size (16, 8, and 5), coupled with Minima Fly (F) guides as runners (size 5 or 4W) The size 4wF have and ID as large as a KB/KT 5. The Minima guides are close to the same heights as the Fuji guides, thus serve as a very light alternative.

For comparison purposes, the size 16 recoil has a height of 12.8 mm, the size 20 is 16.63mm. In contrast the, height of a Fuji KL16H is 43.3 mm, and a Minima 16M is 39.5 mm.
Norm

What Herb said..



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 01:18PM by Tom Harder.

Sounds great Tom but the OP already has one of the lightest and most sensitive blanks available today , do you have info on the reel used and the recoil guide sizes and spacing ?

Okay, Herb knows the best way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 01:20PM by Tom Harder.

Use the KR Concept...it's the best!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 01:17PM by Tom Harder.

Tom is there anyway you can email that pdf. I have a year or so of Rod Makers magazine but not that article. Or can u tell me what issue it is in so i can order the back issue. Thats some awesome info right there

Sure John.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 01:25PM by Tom Harder.

Unhide your emails, if you want to correspond private. Just click on the name of the person you want to contact and the email will be shown,

Remember the New Guide Concept and the KR Concept are different animals.Although they are similar, the KR concept is a refinement of the NGC and was designed as a rapid choke microguide concept for braid. It uses high frame small ring guides to rapidly choke and control the line. This allows long, smooth, and effortless casting. The KR guides are also lighter than the typical NGC guides, thus resulting in a lighter and more responsive rod with excellent sensitivity. If you really want to go light use the Minima guides I suggested above. This entire guide set will weigh less than a single size 25 Y guide, which is the typical NGC stripper that would be used for your rod. The recoil guides are just to short to use in either a NGC or KR concept. In my opinion, I would not waste my money on them, but that's your choice.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2019 10:32PM by Norman Miller.