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Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Jeremy Lee (---.oc.oc.cox.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 03:13AM

Hey all,

I'm curious about this because I have a friend who received a mass-produced rod from Penn with a busted rod tip guide (not the rod itself but the guide is bent and just needs to be replaced). Initially I thought you could take a razor to score the epoxy and remove any thread, then take a lighter to it and twist the tip right off. He sent me this video though, which warns against doing that: [www.youtube.com]

They recommend, for non-custom mass-produced rods, that you grind the guide tube down till it's split then remove. That seems pretty difficult to do. I haven't seen much else out there on this topic so figured I'd ask to clear things up. I read in another thread here somewhere that if you apply a low amount of heat like via alcohol lamp or hair dryer and apply some pulling resistance to the tip (pulling straight and not twisting) while heating, the epoxy *should* loosen up and the tip should slide right off. I'd be scared of trying to grind down a guide myself, and potentially damaging the blank tip which would defeat the purpose and require cutting it down anyway. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to risk damaging the blank with too much heat.

So what's the consensus?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 03:47AM by Jeremy Lee.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: February 01, 2019 04:48AM

The ones I have taken off I have used heat. I just used a lighter. Don't think I ever had one I had to get very hot. I was always able to pull them off by hand without burning myself. Just keep the heat moving and you should be ok. Other than a real heavy offshore type rod I would think it would be real easy to go from not enough to into the blank it you tried to file or grind through the tube of the tip.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 08:24AM

Not certain it is correct to assume all factory built rods' tip tops are affixed with epoxy or CA, and not all custom rods' tip tops are affixed with thermoplastic glue. Nonetheless, a modest amount of warming (with emphasis on modest) is worth a try before resorting to files or cutting tools.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 01, 2019 08:25AM

It's pretty simple, really. You apply a brief application of heat (a few seconds - remember the heat is at the tip of the flame) and then attempt slide the tiptop off. If it won't come off, then you resort to grinding or cutting the tiptop off. Why go the hard route before at least trying the easy one? 90% of them or better, will slide off easily with a very brief application of heat.

...................

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 09:30AM

We like to use a small candle in a holder, that allows both hands to be free.
Be VERY careful with heat, and touch just the metal of the tip top itself.
If you get the blank too hot, it will fail.
Just try for a very short time in the flame, and try removing.
Just carefully repeat until you get that magic temp.
I would not "twist", but pull straight off.
If it is very stubborn, then yes, use a small grinder to take material off two sides of the tip top tube.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381
Fax 870-425-0782

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 01, 2019 09:55AM

Regardless of the method used NEVER NEVER twist the tip during the removal process always pull straight. There was a good suggestion from a previous discussion
where the rod was held fast and a rubber band was attached to the tip and stretched while heat was applied to the tip. The force of the rubber band pulled the tip straight off.
I tried it one time and it did work but I was nervous while applying the heat.
I still prefer to use the file method even though it is more time consuming.
The best method is the one you feel most comfortable with.


Have fun.

John

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 10:17AM

I have always done the exact thing Tom has said :

"It's pretty simple, really. You apply a brief application of heat (a few seconds - remember the heat is at the tip of the flame) and then attempt slide the tiptop off"


Every tip i have ever needed to remove slid right off after an application of heat , i would freak if that didn't work , it has worked 100% of the time with me. The heat applied is extremely minimal only the metal tube becomes quite warm the tip of the blank never becomes hot .

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 10:34AM

Jeremy,
The reason that this may have been mentioned is that some folks and or manufacturers use epoxy- rather than heat activated adhesive to attach the tip top to the rod.

For these cases, the rubber band method works very well.

Take a heavy rubber band and loop it through the tip. Then, hook the rubber band to a hook or nail on the wall. If you don't have any hooks or nails on the wall, take a heavy string or cord and tie it to a door knob.

Then, take a good heat source. An alcohol lamp, or a butane lighter all work very well.

grab the rod and pull straight back from the attachment point of the rubber band. Pull back until the rubber band has stretched to its maximum. Then, take you heat source and heat the tip top. Continue to hold the rod so that the rubber band is stretched to its maximum.

Continue with the heating of the tip top. Just as soon as the adhesive has reached its melting point, the adhesive will loosen and the tip will fly off.

So you will have removed the tip top with the least amount of heat, because just as soon as the adhesive has gotten soft enough the rubber band will instantly pull the tip top off the end of the rod blank.

Best wishes

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 12:02PM

The method that Roger describes above has worked for me every time! The key is the constant tension pulling on the tip.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 04:14PM

Roger's method without the heat will also works for pulling teeth. LOL We all pretty much agree that applying pressure on the tip top away from the blank while heating it will remove the tip top with the least amount of issues and heat. Whenever you grind on something like the tip top barrel it will create heat due to friction. In the process of cutting into the barrel material a greater amount of heat is generated than heat carefully and directly applied for a short period as stated above. I promise you that you are doing more damage to the blank tip by cutting off the barrel. Localized high heat and possible mechanical damage to the blank tip from the grinder or other cutting device is way worse than anything. Not everything on YouTube is correct.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 04:19PM

Jeremy
I use the rubber-band method. Use a powerful one - not wimpy. Make sure you loop the rubber band off on a draw or cabinet pull or door knob. Don't have your wife hold it or she will never speak to you again. Or worse - you will have to pay for a chipped finger nail to be repaired.
Also - I use a 40 watt soldering iron to apply heat to the tube. It should come off after 6-8 seconds if iron at full heat.
Complication here is that the tip-top tube is bent and may pose a problem removing it by pulling it off.
Don't go more than 12-15 seconds with 40-60 watt soldering iron.
Herb

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 06:12PM

If hot melt ferrule cement is used for installing the tip top there is never a need for pulling force or rubber bands . I personally have never ever had a tip top loosen let alone come off when using ferrule cement meant for that task but if others have thats shocking to me , i personally would never use high strength epoxy for installing tip tops but if others do then by all means it's your rod just don't even think about touching mine lol.



On another note i hope rod manufacturers aren't using epoxy for tip top's these days , that would be an exceptionally stupid move imo , manufacturers will get more warranty claims for sure because weekend anglers are going to think it's hot melt and a lighter is all thats needed , it SHOULD be all thats needed but when it doesn't come off like it should take a guess how the weekend warrior will rectify the situation , yup , not good . I understand the tip top in the OP's description is bent so that may not apply in this instance .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 06:20PM by herb canter.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 01, 2019 06:47PM

Jeremy when you replace the tip top don’t use epoxy or super glue! Herb is absolutely correct use hot melt tiptop/ferrule cement.The hot melt cement will securely hold the tip top on and I’ll be easy to remove when necessary. Epoxy or super glue cause more problems then it’s worth when you need to subsequently need to remove the tip top. In fortunately way too many Rod manufacturers use epoxy or super glue for attaching tip tops.
Norm

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: David Parsons (---.s16300.c3-0.drf-cbr1.atw-drf.pa.cable.rcncustomer.com)
Date: February 01, 2019 06:50PM

Some of the penn rods I rebuilt the tip was epoxy on and heat did not work. when I do a lot of rods at one time I take air operated sander and start sanding on the side of the tip if it is glue the friction of the sanding will heat it up enough to loosen the tip if it was epoxy I sand it down on both side to get it to split. or I take a file to both sides to slit it.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: February 02, 2019 02:09PM

Usually the tip top epoxy is 5 minute type, which will loosen with heat.
I have used it on heavy Salt water rods, and have replaced damaged tiptops later.
But, the amount of heat is more than hot melt glue would need.
We do the same kind of epoxy on reel seat components and on metal ferrules.
That way they can be dismantled if need be.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381
Fax 870-425-0782

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 02, 2019 02:40PM

I have successfully removed tip tops with the rubber band method that were adhered with epoxy and CA glue. They both will release with carefully applied heat.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: February 02, 2019 05:10PM

Phil Erickson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have successfully removed tip tops with the
> rubber band method that were adhered with epoxy
> and CA glue. They both will release with carefully
> applied heat.



Understood Phil but why on earth would you use CA or high strength epoxy on a tip top in the first place is the question when there are adhesives specifically designed for that purpose that work exceptionally well that don't require the "Rubber band method" for removal . Luckily for you , you have been able to remove tip tops when necessary even when using alternatives to the norm . As shown in this thread others haven't been as fortunate .

My question is since when has the long standing norm of using specifically designed tip top cement for tip tops become unpopular where people said" I would prefer to make my tip top far more difficult to remove than necessary" so i will use Super Glue or High Strength Epoxy instead . Don't forget tip tops are prone to take more damage than any other guide on the rod , the tip top is first to hit hard things when transporting the rod and it's located at the most vulnerable point on the rod meaning ( Handle with care) , why would people make it more difficult to remove ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2019 05:11PM by herb canter.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Jeremy Lee (---.mobile.att.net)
Date: February 02, 2019 05:21PM

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phil Erickson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have successfully removed tip tops with the
> > rubber band method that were adhered with epoxy
> > and CA glue. They both will release with
> carefully
> > applied heat.
>
>
>
> Understood Phil but why on earth would you use CA
> or high strength epoxy on a tip top in the first
> place is the question when there are adhesives
> specifically designed for that purpose that work
> exceptionally well that don't require the "Rubber
> band method" for removal . Luckily for you , you
> have been able to remove tip tops when necessary
> even when using alternatives to the norm . As
> shown in this thread others haven't been as
> fortunate .
>
> My question is since when has the long standing
> norm of using specifically designed tip top cement
> for tip tops become unpopular where people said" I
> would prefer to make my tip top far more difficult
> to remove than necessary" so i will use Super Glue
> or High Strength Epoxy instead . Don't forget tip
> tops are prone to take more damage than any other
> guide on the rod , the tip top is first to hit
> hard things when transporting the rod and it's
> located at the most vulnerable point on the rod
> meaning ( Handle with care) , why would people
> make it more difficult to remove ?


Is super glue and high strength epoxy more expensive than the other low melting point stuff? If so it would make sense why mass produced factory rods are produced that way... Even if it's a difference of pennies, those pennies add up

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 02, 2019 10:05PM

These were not tip tops I glued on, but repairs of others rods! Perhaps CA is used because it is so much faster to assemble.

Additionally, if people didn't experiment with other methods and materials, we would only have cork handles today!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2019 10:08PM by Phil Erickson.

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Re: Guide tip removal on a factory rod
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 03, 2019 09:03AM

I use 2 part 30 min epoxy. It gives me plenty of time to make adjustments (align the tip) and I don't have to rush the process.

I don't worry about replacing the tip in the future because the probability of having to replace it is remote. Most of the time a tip has to be replaced is when the tip actually breaks off so there is no concern about how to remove the tip.

Although hot melt seems to be preferred it is not as strong as epoxy. We are always talking about optimum installations and in my opinion hot melt is not optimum.

The bottom line is that one works within their comfort zone and what they are confident doing. .

Have fun

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