Hey All - I'm building an NFC XRAY DS721 (7'2" 1 power) spinning rod and looking into the K series guides. I haven't used them before and have found some of the guide sizing and placement "charts" to be all over the place. For a rod that length, I've typically gone with a 30H or 25H for the stripper guide, then down to a 16H or 12H for the second guide. The GPS at Angler's Resource is coming up with a 16H, 8H, 6L for the first three guides (3000 size reel, fishing 6-8lb flouro with occasional 15lb braid to flouro leader) and that just sounds too small. Just based off of the trains I've used, and been happy with, on previous builds, I was thinking 25H, 12H, 6M then down to 5T for the runners. Other K series charts (including Fuji's) seem to be more in line with that thinking. Granted, I haven't used the K's before, but, do they make that much of a difference? I know the suggestions put out by the manufacturers aren't always ideal since they typically want to upsell you on bigger and more guides, so I'm not really sure what's what. Any advice would be appreciated.

Mine is extreme (16H, 7M then 4 thru tip) but I use only light braid (PE0.6 and lower) and I use Torzite guides (inner diameter bigger).

On this blank go with KL20H, KL10H, KL5.5M then KT4 or KT4.5.

Runner size should be sized depending of your line an leader (an connection knot).
A size 3000 reel is on the bigger side (I use 2000) but with the stripper (KL20H) at 23" front reel stem you should be nice.

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Eric
[www.emfishing.fr]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2019 01:29AM by Eric MONTACLAIR.

Thanks Eric. I typically use 2000 or 2500 reels, but this setup will be used to throw light jigs (3/32 - 1/8) in gin clear water, so I need as much distance as possible. I've found the bigger spool on the 3000 allows the line to come off better and can add several feet to the cast. I typically use the Albright knot to tie my leader and have had great luck with it (smaller knot than the double uni). You don't think the 4.5 would be too small? That was my other question. Thanks for the feedback, I truly appreciate it.

KR guide train not regular K i see , the difference between a 2500 size spinner and a 3000 at least with Shimano is line capacity , spool diameter is about the same, the Penn spinners spool diameters tend to get slightly larger as you go up. Never fished with flourocarbon as a main line , i do use it for leader material however .

10 - 15 pound braid will give you the best distance and a KL-H 20 is the stripper size to go with even though with a 3000 size spinner a KL-H 16 would work very well . I agree with Eric 100% on the ( KL20H, KL10H, KL5.5M then KT4 or KT4.5 ) suggestions . As to your questions about whether the 4.5 zize runners are too small the answer is definitely not , especially if using the Albright .

Your drop shot rod is a very light powered rod and will perform very nicely with a KR concept set up. You have to remember, It’s not the size of the ring but rather height of the guide that is important. The KLH guides feature a high frame and small ring design. This design helps to choke and control the line much better.and faster than the more traditional lower framed and larger ringed guides, resulting in very long and smooth casts. For example, a KL16H is higher than an LV25 or a Y20, and a KL20H is higher than an LV30 or a Y25. For your rod, reel, and line choice, you could use a reduction train consisting of either KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M, or KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M, both will work great. The runners for either reduction train would be KB/KT guides in the size of your choice (5.5, 5, 4.5, or 4). I think the KL20H based reduction train will give you a little more versatility for use with different reel and line sizes. I mostly use size 5 or 4.5 runners, using 2 KB guides with the rest being KT guides. They will pass most line to leader knots. However, the best line to leader knot I have used is the FG knot, it is the thinnest and strongest knot you can use and will easily pass through size 4 guides without a problem. It takes a little practice to learn how to tie it, but it is well worth the trouble. Hope this helps.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2019 11:24AM by Norman Miller.

Thanks guys. I'll give those a try. I truly appreciate the assistance. I'll have to look into the FG Knot. I'm always looking for a better way to attach the leader, and have no problem putting in the time to learn a new knot. I'm still trying to find one that is easier to tie in the early spring and late fall when my hands are numb. No luck yet.

I built a 9 foot inshore rod and my reel of choice for it was a Stradic FK 5000 and the one mistake i made with it was using a KL-H 25 over the KL-H 20 for the stripper , when i strapped on the 5000 on my 8 foot inshore rod that does have a KL-H 20 stripper instead of the KL-H 25 that is used as the stripper for my 9 footer the slightly smaller KL-H 20 performed even better.

The KL-H 25 still works great but the KL-H 20 would of been a better choice , i use a Stradic 4000 FK with the 8 footer and the 5000 FK with the 9 footer so what am i getting at , go with the smaller 16 or 20 instead of the KL-H 25 for the stripper but make sure you test extensively of course.

Regarding the FG knot , it is without question not only the strongest knot for joining leader / line connections it's by far the slimmest and will easily shoot through size 4 runners , problem is IT IS NOT the knot to use with cold fingers standing in water , awesome knot but not the easiest or quickest to tie.

Thanks Herb. With that thinking, I may even consider the 16H for the Stripper. I don't do a lot of wading, but we fish big water and in early spring/late fall that means wind and WAVES. Numb hands and 4-6 root rollers makes it tricky even for the simplest knots. I usually tie on a pretty long leader so I don't have to retie as often.

I don't have first hand experience with how stiff 6 - 8 pound Flourocarbon is as a main line , if i did and i knew it was extremely limp with very little memory i would be able to tell you with absolute certainty that the 16 H stripper would be the best choice . As long as you fish braid 15 pounds and under the 16 H will work brilliantly with a 3000 size reel and it will make the most efficient transitional guide train , slightly more efficient than a KL-H 20 as the stripper and considerably more efficient than a KL-H 25 .

The KL-H 20 size stripper would be a great compromise & would be slightly more forgiving than the 16 or 25 size .

I know exactly what you're talking about with suffering breakoff's and needing to retie in the heat of the moment , it's very annoying . You want simplicity , speed & reliability , if you ever doubt your connection it's best to do it over because many have lost record setting fish due to impatience . Successful anglers eliminate doubts and leave nothing to chance .

I often use the modified Albright thats very thin and strong also but the FG is considerably more reliable , once you memorize the FG knot thats what you will want to always use , it's truly exceptional , failures that you may hear about are from people who miss a step while tying , tie it correctly and it will not let you down.

Hope everything turns out great for you , the X Ray blank is as good as it gets and a KR layout is sure to please .

I know the older Fluorocarbons were very stiff and could only effectively be used as a leader. The new ones by companies like P Line, Seaguar, Sunline and even the Bass Pro Brand that Van Dam fishes are great. Less stretch and better abrasion resistance. Comes in real handy when fishing lakes with a ton of Zebra Mussels.

For anyone wondering how a KR concept guide train handles fluorocarbon line. I've used fluorocarbon as the main line on my spinning rods for years. First on factory rods that used an NGC guide train, and now on rods I've built using the KR concept guide train. The KR concept performs leaps and bounds above an NGC guide train. It's not really even close how much better the KR concept is. I have less noise, zero line slap, and casting distance increased by at least 20%.

I use 3000 series Shimano reels, and my reduction trains consist of a KL 20H, a KL 10H, and a KL 5.5M. Runners have been either KT 5s or KT 4.5s. I've used up to 10# test with great results, but 8# test performs even better. I use Seaguar Tatsu and I am certain that the line has a lot to do with the performance.If a person hasn't tried it, Tatsu is the real deal. Worth every penny of its price.

Well there you go , now we know for certain that Flourocarbon main line works fantastic with a 3000 size spinner with the very popular KL-H 20 - 10 H - and a 5.5 M reduction train . I use 10 pound braid and that stuff will rocket through a KL-H 16 stripper but Dave chose the KL-H 20 size which is a wise move because it will be more forgiving with slightly higher test lines and lines not quite as limp as 10 pound braid is .

I think Ryan is set now , Dave provided the final chapter .

Thanks again everyone.

KT 4.5 with your setup and knot is fine for me (Torzite have greater inner diameter so you can scale down to 4).
You will be surprised as how well this blank cast light jig ;-)

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Eric
[www.emfishing.fr]

I will attest to all stated above. I have built on the Point Blank PB701 mlf using the klh20 as a stripper and also on a Point Blank PB701 lxf using the klh16 as a stripper and both work amazingly well. I use the Stradic ci4 in 3000 on the mlf using up to 20lb braid as a main line and I use the Stradic ci4 2500 on the lxf with either a braid main line or Floro up to 8lb test. Love fishing with both set ups!

Rick