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Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Ken Patek (172.109.138.---)
Date: January 23, 2019 02:04PM

I'm being asked to tailor a 7'0 Gator Blank, 20-40lb class (T70MH) to a 10500 sized Spinning Reel. This reel is huge!!!! Way too big for the blank. I explained to the customer its going to be a challenge stopping the line from slapping when he casts, with such a big reel. (to add to it, he wants to use 40lb mono). He doesn't care. He won't be casting, just free lining live bait and/or trolling around. He doesn't want a longer blank, either.

I don't see any way around doing the COF method for my guide train, but that means I'll need to do something like 50, 40, 30,25, and by the time I get the end...I'll be at a 20 size guide. The end result will be like 5 or 6 guides, and all of them huge. It just doesn't sit right with me.

Or, do I hone in on the fact he doesn't care about cast-ability, and choke it sooner to allow for more, smaller guides, and tailor the guide train to even stress distribution on the blank itself?

One of my weaknesses in rod building is fully understanding the cause/effect of guide placement. Things like, what takes priority? Castability, or even stress distribution? In other words, if I tailor this build to castability, then there will be large angles in the line as it passes through the guides, which I understand is something to avoid.

I fully admit I'm over my head, and trying to use this as an opportunity to learn.

Thanks in advance,
Ken Patek

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 23, 2019 02:29PM

Stress distribution seems to be the priority in this situation. Regardless, there is no reason to use every possible guide size just because they're available. Nor does doing so guarantee better casting performance. If you start with a 50 (you don't have to) you might then drop to a 30 and then to a 20 or 16, etc. Best bet is to go out and cast it, retrieve, etc. You're just not going to know until you try it.

.................

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Ken Patek (172.109.138.---)
Date: January 23, 2019 03:19PM

Tom,

Thank you for the response. I do recognize its going to be a trial and error type of scenario. I should of mentioned that the ultimate premise of my post to was to understand what size guides to buy, and how many. I guess I'll one of each size, and multiples of the runners (probably should go with 10s, or 8s).

- Ken

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 03:27PM

If he is not casting, then why a spinning reel? Sounds like a stout offshore casting reel would be better for several reason and one being drag. Off course if he already has the reel, and it sounds like he does, then a rapid reduction guide train would be better suited for the length of rod. something like a 40, 20, 10, and the rest (runners) 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6 & 6.5 tt. Move the 40 mm guide close enough to the reel to prevent the line slap on the blank. You will need to make a choke point where the 10 will be, based on a straight line from the reel to about mid blank. The 40 and the 20 should be in this line with the 10. You may need to change guide sizes but I see no need for larger guides for the runner train part. I don't think you originally had enough guides and you use to many different sized guides. Just my opinion. Good luck with this endeavor, let us know how it turned.

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 03:36PM

Sounds like a Penn Spinfisher SSV model in the 10500 size and if it is then you're right that is a gargantuan sized reel and it weighs a ton . I suppose being a builder you have to build what the customer requests even though you may have far better ideas , not all customers are willing to listen and take advice from people who know better . Then there are customers who want to listen and appreciate the advice an experienced builder can provide .

You will figure it out Ken , hope all goes well .

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Ken Patek (47.201.60.---)
Date: January 23, 2019 04:11PM

Herb - Yes, its the Penn Spinfisher SSV model and it is huge, and weighs a ton. I honestly gave it my best effort to tell him this reel is not a good match for the blank. I have an 8' model that I also showed him, but he's sticking to what he wants. So.....

Lance - Thank you for that input.

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 23, 2019 04:21PM

Just trolling and free-lining? I think nearly ANY guide train would suit his needs, as long as the first one was either BIG to three feet from the reel.

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 07:04PM

Don't forget to allow for knots passing easily thru the running guides.
I would think at least sz 8.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381
Fax 870-425-0782

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 08:21PM

I would go 50, 20, 10 to the tip with a 10 tip top. Use enough runners so that the line will not rub on the blank no matter how heavily loaded.

No need to do any test casting, since he will not be casting. The size 50 will be big enough to insure that the line gets off the reel cleanly. Then, just choke it down with a couple more guides and you will be set.

Start with the size 50 at 20 to 25 inches from the face of the reel and you should be set.

Good luck

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 08:30PM

I'm with Phil here! As long as the stripper is not small enough to restrict line flow, the rest don't matter too much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2019 08:34PM by Lynn Behler.

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 08:34PM

+ 1 , Phil is the man , the legend , he knows his stuff , in other words, don't mess with Phil .

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Re: Need some help again on guide train
Posted by: Ken Patek (172.109.138.---)
Date: January 24, 2019 09:37AM

Thanks everyone. I purchased KWAG 40, 30L, 20, 16, (2x) 10s, (3x) 12s. Hopefully I can get a good layout within that selection. I have a sneaking feeling I should of also got the 50, for trial.

I'll post the results.

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