I’ve read a lot about rods being balanced, but I have never found any advice on the best way to achieve it. From the videos I have seen they say for the greatest angler comfort the rod should balance near the reel. When laying out your handle assembly how is the best way to achieve this if you aren’t certain what reel will be on the rod?

Josh,
I take the approach, that one can never be certain what reel is going to be on a rod.

For example in my case when I go fishing, bring along a bad of reels and a bag of rods.
I will grab the rod that I want to use at that instant and then grab a reel that I want to use at that instant.

However, an hour later, depending on conditions, I will switch to a different reel for a myriad of reasons. Sometimes it will be a light reel, a medium heavy reel, or a heavy reel.

Generally speaking, depending on the type of rod and normal reel placement, it is often not terribly important as to which particular reel will be on the rod, because on these type of rods, it will make little difference on the rod balance.

On the other hand, if building a rod where the rod is essentially at the butt of the rod, the particular weight of a reel will have a huge effect on a rod's balance.

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But, you ask about balance. Generally speaking, I will hold a rod with the reel mounted on it, and lay it on the palm of my hand, in the same position as if I were holding it. If the rod stays there and does not have the tip - tip down, or the butt, tip down - I consider the rod balanced.

Best wishes.

Generally rods will be tip heavy. If you place the reel far enough forward to balance on most blanks you will have it snagging on your elbow with certain techniques. I just build for techniques and ergonomics and the balance ends up what it is. I never add weight to the butt. I did that a long time ago and when I got it to balance it would almost torque out of my hand when casting (admittedly, an old glass, heavy, blank).

To build for balance you would start with the lightest (meaning high tech/expensive/short as possible) blank that will do the function you want and put the lightest guides on it, and place the reel seat as far forward as you can stand ergonomically. Of course it is easier with shorter blanks.

Josh
Rod balance also will be affected by rod blank length and also by the number and type of guides that are being used. There is really no set measurements that will be correct for all handle mount / reel seat situations. All can you do is mock up a handle / reel seat setup with a close choice for the reel type and and get it as close as you reasonably can.
Rog

Josh

I suggest you build the rod with the handle length that is most comfortable for you. As Michael said generally rods will be tip heavy, this can be somewhat compensated by using single foot and light guides. I f the rod tends to be tip heavy you can add weight to the butt, but that adds unnecessary weight to the rod and is not the best choice. Roger T has a good point... if possible do a mock up before final assembly.

With any new build there is always a learning period to get the "feel" and handling of the rod before one gets accustom to it. As you use the rod whatever the characteristics are either good or bad will work its self out because you will subconsciously adjust for it or get used to it..

Have fun

John

Josh, for me personally, my first consideration in placing the reel seat, is with the idea of being able to use the rod, comfortably. I'm first going to take into consideration what the rod is going to be used for. Different presentations allow, and sometimes require, different rear grip lengths. This is because of the different casting motions used for some presentations, versus other presentations. For instance, and I am speaking only for me personally here, I can use a longer rear grip on a rod I am using to throw deep diving crankbaits, than I can on a rod I will be using for flipping and pitching. If I'm making long casts with spinnerbaits, I can use a longer rear grip than I can if I am making short roll casts with the same bait.

The next thing I'm going to consider, and I think it goes hand in hand with what I posted above, and that is what clothes I might be wearing while using the rod in question. A rod with a longer rear grip may be fine when wearing less bulky clothes, but not so good when wearing clothes you would wear in colder weather. I want to be able to comfortably use the rod under all conditions, with only the need for slight adjustments in my casting motion. If I have to become a contortionist to use the rod because my rear grip is too long, I'm not going to use the rod.

As far as building and balancing the rod itself, for a future rod and reel combination goes ...it depends on where you want the balance point, in relationship to the weight of the reel. The further away the weight of the reel is from the balance point, the more affect variations in reel weight are going to have on balance. What I mean is, if you want the balance point right at the front hood of the reel seat (speaking of a casting rod) a one or two ounce difference in reel weight isn't going to make as big of a difference as it would if you wanted the balance point 1" in front of the front hood of the reel seat. The further away the weight is from the balance point, the more affect it has. You'd certainly want the rod itself to be tip heavy using your selected balance point, but how tip heavy would be difficult to determine. I would think you would at least have to have a general idea of what reel you expect to be used on the rod, and know how much it weighs, to get you in the ball park.

Josh Hutchison Wrote:
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"When laying out your handle assembly how is the best way to achieve this if you aren’t certain what reel will be on the rod"


If you really have no clue what type and size reel you're going to use i wouldn't even be bothering with the handle layout . Figure out what type of reel you plan on using and the overall weight of it , what type of fishing this setup is targeted for and what you prefer to throw , how far are the typical casts etc.... Overall rod length and type will also be extremely helpful . Without that info it's like picking the best tires to buy without knowing what type of automobile they're going on.

Is the rod supposed to "balance", and at what balance point, with no weight at all hanging from the line at the tip-top, or is there a chart of different weights which are supposed to balance different rods with different weight reels and different length handles? This topic is very confusing to me.

There are no charts Phil , having experience with many different rods & rod lengths and reels & reel types is the best education on what balances well .


I am a surf guy and have used many surf rod types and lengths and matching the right reel is paramount for optimum performance , surf rods in the most popular lengths 9 feet to 11 feet balance exceptionally well with reel sizes in the 5000 - 8000 size and even Shimano's in the 10000 size work very well , with older Penns, reel sizes like the legendary SS 6500 was the ideal size and weight that balanced beautifully on 10 to 11 foot surf rods . Once you get in the 7500 ,8500 and 9500 range with Penn spinners you're talking weights of 29 ounces and up which DOES NOT balance well on surf rods in the lengths i previously listed.


My ideal balance point on my surf rod setup's is about 4 to 5 inches in front of the spool with a very slight upward trajectory toward the tip . As a general rule you want to use the smallest reel that does everything you need it to do , don't go big because it looks better , if it has the strength , line capacity and drag capability that you need it would be a wise choice.

I know the OP is not talking about surf rods but many of the same things apply .



For surf rods in the 9 - 11 foot range reels in the 15 oz up to 22 oz balance exceptionally well . Lightweight rods up to 8 feet balance exceptionally well with reels that weigh from 8 oz up to about 14 oz , balance points should be excellent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2019 04:47PM by herb canter.

Josh I was wondering about basicly the same thing and got some great advice from the pros on here. Look down a couple of posts at handle length there are great advice and ideas on that thread.

Phil i'm not talking about what you know best " Fly rods" , thats a whole different ballgame that i DO NOT have experience in. When someone says having a "Balanced" outfit that just means wherever the rods owner chooses to hold the rod for their individual best comfort the rod does not feel overly tip heavy and does not feel overly bottom heavy it should feel as they say "Balanced " or just about right .

Balancing the rod with the reel is done by placing the tip of your finger a few inches in front of the reel seat in most cases , the rod with the reel attached and filled with line should balance with no tip straight up or tiptop pulling downward , it should be somewhat level thats what most consider balanced.

Herb Canter you have experience with surf rods do you use surf reel seats? I was just thinking if you use a surf seat you could move it anywhere on the grip to get it to balance. Do you think they would be practical for ultra light rods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2019 06:38PM by Paul Luechtefeld.

Herb Canter you have experience with surf rods do you use surf reel seats? I was just thinking if you use a surf seat you could move it anywhere on the grip to get it to balance. Do you think they would work for ultra light rods. Sorry dont know how to delete this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2019 06:39PM by Paul Luechtefeld.

Paul Luechtefeld Wrote:
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> Herb Canter you have experience with surf rods do
> you use surf reel seats? I was just thinking if
> you use a surf seat you could move it anywhere on
> the grip to get it to balance. Do you think they
> would work for ultra light rods. Sorry dont know
> how to delete this.


Hi Paul, i had to step away from my computer for awhile so sorry for the delayed response. Regarding adjustable reel seats, they're not nearly as popular as you might have thought and fixed type reel seats are far far more popular even on surf rods . . Many may not be aware of this but those people who either tape their reel directly on to the blank or use an adjustable reel seat rarely ever move it once they find the initial spot that works best for them .

I personally have never pursued the adjustable reel seat option because i am one that knows exactly where i want the reel seat and it's set permanently at the same distance up from the butt on all my surf rods

This is based on my physical frame , arm length and preferred hand spacing when casting , every rod builder should make it a habit of going through the extensive testing with every new rod blank you build on UNLESS it's the exact model you have built before and know is ideal .

If getting the handle length is a real concern for people i would recommend not making things permanent until you're absolutely certain , nothing wrong with attaching a reel to the blank at different distances and doing some test casting , many guys fish with taped on guides before they wrap them permanently .

Don't rush into building a rod it needs to be carefully thought out and scrutinized , if it doesn't feel right then keep adjusting until it does feel just right .

Paul Luechtefeld Wrote:
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" I was just thinking if you use a surf seat you could move it anywhere on the grip to get it to balance. Do you think they would be practical for ultra light rods"



As i usually do i forgot to answer what you specifically asked , the balancing part is not nearly as complicated as it may sound , certainly not to the point of needing a self adjusting reel seat . Imo Ultralight builds should be even easier to properly balance , most Ultralight blanks these days are ridiculously lightweight to begin with , going with a 1000 - 3000 size reel is very rarely going to screw up the balance . I have taped on guides temporarily and slapped a reel on my surf rod blanks before attaching anything permanently just to see if everything felt optimal . I suggest you do the same , i really believe you're worrying needlessly over this and will soon find out it was much easier than you could have imagined .

As to the question about would an adjustable reel seat be practical on an Ultralight rod i would have to say i very much doubt it but other members would know more about that i don't have experience with Ultralight rods , sorry.

If you feel lost in what reel just say so , the reel choice is everything and the members here will make sure it's a good pick for what you want to do.

No problem Herb I was looking at the seats on mud hole that you wrap directly to the handle and thought it might be an answer for Josh's question. I think something like that would be very easy to find the balance point. Sorry got the name wrong they are called plate reel seats I dont know where I got the surf part from. Getting old I guess.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2019 08:27PM by Paul Luechtefeld.

Paul Luechtefeld Wrote:
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"I thought it might be an answer for Josh's question"


Perhaps it will be Paul , your opinion is welcomed and i'm glad you're comfortable being a contributor on this site .