I've got a few Flipping Rods to build and have a few questions. First Rod the guy wants Micro Guides, the second rod he wants Standard Guides for Cold weather use.
Any suggestions on guide spacing for the difference in guide trains? I've thought about using the static test, but would you start / end at the same point ( length ) from reel.
Then I have a buddy wanting a Flipping / Pitching Rod with Micro guides but he wants the smallest #3's & 2's, and I have not built a rod with that small of guides so any suggestions are appreciated.
Last 2 Flip / Pitch Rods are pretty standard, except he wants Carbon Fiber Handles, 1- Split Grip, other Full Grip, on the Full Grip he thinks he wants a real long handle 14" which seems very long to me, but it will be on a 8' rod? any thoughts or suggestions.
Thanks Rich



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2018 01:46PM by Rich Henderson.

Jim Ising helped me build a Point Blank 7'6" flip/pitch rod last year using the Fugi KR Concept guides (down to size 4 KT runners).

Using AR Winn grips the rod is a dream to use (all day flipping, pitching and frog fishing in slop with 65# braid) and it comes in under 4 oz.

Ron B

Rich,
Take your customer to a place that carries salmon/steelhead or swimbait rods. Have him go through his flipping routine, he'll hate it and want the shorter grip.

Amen to what Spencer said in reference to a 14" rear grip. For me personally and my physical dimensions, 5'8" about 195 lbs, I wouldn't be able to use a rod with that long of a rear grip, for flipping and pitching. Max for me is 10 1/2" butt of rod to the back of the reel seat.

As far as guide spacing, I go a pretty standard 21" from the face of the reel to the butt guide, and then use static load to place the remainder of the guides. The smallest running guides I've ever used are 4.5s. Oh and I use a #10 butt guide. Usually a Fuji LN, but the rod I am building now I am using a KW.

As others have suggested.

Build all of the rods with the same guide spacing unless you don't want the line to run under the blank or touch the blank when it is loaded.

If you don't what the line that low, simply decrease the spacing of your running guides and add numbers of guides until you get your desired results.


On a long rod, that may mean adding 4-6 additional guides if you don't want the line to touch using #2 guides.

But, it really doesn't matter if the line rubs on the blank, nor if the line goes under the blank when it is loaded. The line will not touch the blank on a cast, and nothing is damaged by having the line rub on the blank, except some finish might be rubbed off the blank over time.

Good luck

Thanks for your input, after talking to my buddy who wants the 14" handle he wants it on one of the Flipping Rods, said he is using a Rod now with a 10" handle and likes it, said he uses it to flip and likes to have the extra length handle to rest on his forearm and side.
The other guy I think I have convinced to go with 4 or 4.5" runners as the 2 & 3's seem very small, especially when using heavy braid or Fluorocarbon.
David the 21" standard from the face of the reel seems to be a good starting point, Thanks.

Rich,
10-4 on the use of the 14 inch handle.

Although you hear words to the contrary, for many folks the use of a long handle is exactly what works for them.

Of course, conversely, there are those folks who like to use long rods with short handles. What ever works for each person.

Good luck

Roger, you are so right, I've even found myself using a longer handle rod and enjoying it. I built myself a Crankbait Rod with a Full Cork 10" Handle and really enjoyed throwing Deep Diving Crankbaits with it. I've also talked to quite a few guys that say a lot of the production rods being built today have handles that are to short, and the split grip rods seem to be loosing some popularity. ? Not sure it's a trend, but I've noticed more guys fishing full grips more than in the past couple of years. That's the beauty of building rods, you can tailor the rod to the user or application and today there are more options than ever.

Thanks again.

I certainly don't mean to be disparaging of others opinions or feelings. And the customer is always right ........ unless they aren't. Rear grip length plays a major role in ones ability to use a rod, for flipping and pitching.

To put it in a Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure kind of way ..... Spencer's advise is most excellent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2018 10:58PM by David Baylor.

David I understand, and like you said the customer is always right......unless he is isn't. But in this case, I know the guy well and will certainly suggest he reconsider or at least try a rod with that long of a handle. One thing about building such a handle, if he decides it's to long it can always be shortened, thus my suggestion he sticks with an 8' blank, so he would still have a legit flipping stick if needed shortening. I appreciate the input and will pass the suggestions along.

If the grip is a split grip, just mock it up without gluing or wrapping any thing in place. Friction fit only, and tape the guides in place. Have him come over.and try the rod with varying handle lengths. Let him choose which length fits him best. One of the nice things about a split grip it can be moved up and down fairly easily within the the 3"-4" needed to be tested. Remember flipping uses one hand on the rod using the wrist to flip the rod. Its not used for two handed casting where a long grip gives leverage for long casts. For flipping too long a handle can get in the way by hanging up in your clothing or bumping your body. The only way to get it just right is to experiment.
Norm

Richard, thank you for taking my latest comment in the manner it was meant. I didn't realize you were the one that chose the 8' blank length for the long handled flipping rod. Clearly you were thinking ahead in that department. From what I've seen written about 8' flipping blanks (I've never seen one) if you were to need to trim 4" off of it, it won't affect the power that much, so that's a good thing.

As far as your convincing the one customer of perhaps going with #4 runners versus 2's or 3's. I personally am in agreement with you, but I'm not the customer, and this isn't really one of those "the customer is always right, until he isn't" kind of moments. A member of this site, Steve Gardner, uses #2 and #3 guides as runners pretty religiously. Even with the heavier, larger diameter lines you mentioned. Steve is an accomplished tournament bass angler and custom rod builder. You may want to do a forum search using his name, to see what comes up. Definitely some very interesting and thought provoking reading.

I will say that from what I've read, Steve uses a spiral wrap exclusively, so that probably makes using that small of a guide a little less problematic, versus using them on a conventionally wrapped casting rod. You certainly can't dispute the weight savings in the guide train though, Using Alps/Forecast mini guides as an example, one 4mm weighs four times as much as one 2mm. From a percentage standpoint, that's pretty substantial. I still can't bring myself to try guides that small, but the idea of the weight savings in the guide train and the affect it would have on the sensitivity of a rod is stuck in my head. Thus far my solution (and it's only quite recent) is to spend the money for titanium framed guides.

Maybe not the best solution, but what the heck ...... you can't take it with you. The money that is ...... lol

David you are welcome, and I certainly get your point. My Buddy fishes lots of Tournaments a year, FLW, Costa and other opens and has been using the Famous White BD Rods that have very small micros for guides so he is familiar with tiny guides, I think he's fished those rods the last 2-3 years. I may not convince him to go up in size and if not we will build his new rods with the tiny micros. I plan on ordering components right after the first of the year, just wanted to get some feedback from the group here for ammunition if I needed it.


Thanks for the lead, I will certainly check out Steve's post's, comments on the subject.

Norm I couldn't agree more, and yes I will suggest he comes by and we do just that. I guess the thing I love the most about Rod building and this site is there are so many options.

A few years ago (4-6) I was fishing competitively and committed to using brand A's Rods, if I had 16 Rods I found 4-8 of those rods, there would be certain things I would change, and that is what has lead me to Build my own. I'm happy to have found this site, as well as Rod Maker magazine as I've kept issues for reference on certain things. Thanks again, and as always I enjoy the site, members and fellowship in Custom Rod Building.


Rich

If the rods are telescoping rods be sure you don't put the first guide too close to the grip, thus preventing the rod from telescoping all the way and possibly having the upper section hard against the first guide.