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KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Ron Beloff (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 21, 2018 08:48AM

I was advised to use #8 running guides for a 9'6" steelhead spinning rod for fishing Erie and the Salmon river during colder months to prevent icing on the guides.

Is it possible to use the Fugi KR Concept for this build or should I consider something else like the cone-of-flight setup?

Thanks

Ron B

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Ron Beloff (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 21, 2018 08:54AM

4-8# mono, 2500 size reel

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 21, 2018 10:23AM

you should be just fine with #8 for runners

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Dale Foster (---.oc.oc.cox.net)
Date: December 21, 2018 03:02PM

yes, I use 5.5 on 9.5’ lamiglas.

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 21, 2018 05:38PM

In my opinion, Size 8 runners are really border line for a a KR concept rod. If I were doing it for icing conditions I would use either size 5.5, 6 or 7 KB/KR runners. I think size 8 runners would ice almost as quickly as size 6 or 7 runners, but I might be mistaken. For the reduction train on a 9’6” cold weather rod. I would op for KL25H, KL12H, KL8M, KL7L, and these would be followed by your runners of choice. The KL7L would be your choke guide. If you want to use size 8 or larger runners than use the New Guide Concept, and not a cone of flight layout.
Norm

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.drr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: December 21, 2018 06:13PM

I see no value in a 4 guide reduction train. This may be the application where the minimum number of guides is advantageous in the interest of giving fewer sites for the ice to form, fewer guides to try to clean of ice. I have done 2 guide reduction trains and they have worked just fine. I don't know the optimum size for icing prevention, but I would do as few as possible of both running and reduction guides. No reason why Fuji KLH would not work well since it would most likely work well with what most likely will be a fairly large reel.

What would be the advantage of going small with runners on this rod? I don't think either casting distance or sensitivity are big priorities. The major thing is to have a rod that works best in icing conditions.

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: December 22, 2018 11:06AM

When I was stationed in Cheboygen, Mi. I fished my G Loomis 1141 with 4 mm match guides, I found out something that was also mentioned by bass anglers with their micro guided rods, the guides will ice up, but also de-ice faster than larger guides, so it was pretty much a wash. Even in Michigan with snow on the ground, I really didn't think it was that big a deal, but here in the Pac. N. W. even getting to the water through canyons, steep banks, black and salmon berry brush and hemlock thickets soon becomes pretty normal fare. It always gave me a light, sensitive, fairly balanced rod to use even when the weather wasn't freezing. i use Blakemore Reel Magic on my lines in cold weather, it helps and it won't hurt your boat, waders, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2018 11:24AM by Spencer Phipps.

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Jay McKnight (---.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
Date: December 22, 2018 08:18PM

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was stationed in Cheboygen, Mi. I fished my
> G Loomis 1141 with 4 mm match guides, I found out
> something that was also mentioned by bass anglers
> with their micro guided rods, the guides will ice
> up, but also de-ice faster than larger guides, so
> it was pretty much a wash. Even in Michigan with
> snow on the ground, I really didn't think it was
> that big a deal, but here in the Pac. N. W. even
> getting to the water through canyons, steep banks,
> black and salmon berry brush and hemlock
> thickets soon becomes pretty normal fare. It
> always gave me a light, sensitive, fairly balanced
> rod to use even when the weather wasn't freezing.
> i use Blakemore Reel Magic on my lines in cold
> weather, it helps and it won't hurt your boat,
> waders, etc.

I was stationed on the Mackinaw too Spencer. I got out in 1997 and I still live here to date. I would build a winter steelhead rod for anyone in this state with guides smaller than size 7.

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: December 23, 2018 10:09AM

Products like Reel Magic that Spencer mentioned makes a big difference in guides icing. I live in northeast Ohio and used to do a lot of steelhead fishing in some pretty severe cold (I was younger then lol) I would spray it on my line and my guides. It helped a lot. Also, if you drift a lot of meat, spawn sacks and maggots n such, sensitivity IMO plays a pretty major role.

It's no different than bass fishing in that if you can't feel the bottom, you have to use more weight. With more weight comes more hang ups. And it isn't any fun retying when you can't feel your fingertips.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2018 10:10AM by David Baylor.

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: December 23, 2018 12:16PM

Another thing that works really well is a good spray down of wd-40. Works very well and fish are not repelled by the spray either.

Good luck

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Ron Beloff (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 23, 2018 09:18PM

Thanks for all inputs.

For the amount of Winter steelhead fishing that I plan on doing (Oct/Nov/ and Mar/April, I think I will keep my original train of KL18H, KL8H, KL6M, KL5.5L, KB4, KB4, KB4, KT4, KT4, KT4, KT4, and LG4 (4.0). I think I would rather deal with the ice when it happens and build my rod for durability and sensitivity. Not really impressed with the Mina Match guides from a durability perspective at this point.

This rod will also be used for fishing crappie and trout magnets in the early Spring, spoons and spinners for rainbow/brown/cutthroat, and float and drift fishing for trout and steelhead in MD/PA/NY. Sensitivity is paramount.

Ron B

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 24, 2018 12:40PM

That will work much better than larger runners, and will give you a very nice long, and light line rod. I make a lot of long (8’-12’) crappie rods here in the South, using light salmon/steelhead blanks, or stripped down crappie rods with a KR concept set up. Depending on the user’s desire, I will use either the Fuji KR guides or the Minima M and F guides. These guys like the longer rods because of casting distance and the ability to handle a cork and jig rig. Many of them will crappie fish below the spillway and on occasion they hook up and land large hybrid stripers, and stripers, as well as some large catfish, and even bass. The Minima guides are almost half the weight of the Fuji KR guides. I agree with you that the Fuji guides are more durable, however I have not yet seen any evidence for this. I have begun using a ceramic LG tip top with the Minima guides. I mostly use a three guide reduction train using the either the size 16 or 20 reduction guide set depending on the line and reel size being used. The Size 20 set allows for use with heavier line and larger reels, without really affecting performance with lighter line and smaller reels.
Norm

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Ron Beloff (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 25, 2018 08:53AM

Norman et al
Thanks so much for everyone's input. I am going to try the KR 3 and 4 guide trains for both the Fugi and Minimas (M, F, and FM tip top) and set them up KR and see which one works best for my multi-purpose rod.
Ron B

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Ron Beloff (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 25, 2018 11:09AM

Norman
What color Fugi LG tip (Alconite black, etc?) would match the MInima and G TiBlack guide color?

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: December 25, 2018 01:19PM

Black

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 25, 2018 02:27PM

Roger is correct. I original used the matching Minima tip tops because I was sceptical as to how they would hold up, and wanted to see for myself how well they did on rods that get a lot of hard use. So earlier this year I had a bass tourment fishing friend of mine bring over his 9 rods that I built or refurbished with Minima4 guides about 4 or 5 yrs ago. I carefully inspected all the guides and only one had a tip top that was starting to groove, all the rest were in good shape. I told him I would replace all the tip tops with matching ceramic LG tip tops. He declined because he really like the lightness of the Minima guides and lack of a ceramic ring to knock out or crack. However, since I did see grooving in the tip top, I started using ceramic tip tops with the Minima guides. The way my friend fishes he probably put over 10 years of normal use on these rods. So the Minima guides are tougher than I originally thought. I mostly use the Minima KR-like guides on UL to L powered rods, on most other spin rods I use the Fuji KR guides. I like both very much, because they perform great.
Norm

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: December 25, 2018 02:54PM

Unless my clients make a specific request, if using Minima guides; I also use a minima tip Have never had a client ask that a tip be replaced.

Good luck

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (172.58.45.---)
Date: December 26, 2018 09:36AM

WD40 is a petroleum product and therefore illegal to put into the waters.

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Mark D Schulte (---.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
Date: December 30, 2018 07:39AM

I asked a similar question not to long ago because of icing guides. One of the best things I found believe it or not was Chapstick on the guides. I tried it and works like a charm. Just thought I'd share that with you.

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Re: KR Concept for a Winter Steelhead Rod
Posted by: Ron Beloff (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 12, 2019 06:41AM

Question - For the four guide reduction train (KL16H-8H-6M-5.5L) going to three KB-4's, would the KB-4 then become the "choke" guide as it is the smallest guide -or- do I mount the 16H stripper and KL5.5L (choke guide or not?) and use these two guides as references to mount the remaining 8H and 6M guides?

Who's the choke guide - the KLH-5.5L or the KB-4?

Thanks

Ron B

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