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Guide spacing help
Posted by: Seth Johnson (151.142.219.---)
Date: November 27, 2018 09:24AM

For the longest time, I've used figured out where I wanted my stripper guide and my first guide from the tip, then used a spreadsheet that gives you a percentage increase between each guide. I would tape on the number of guides I thought it would take, then do a static load test. If I didn't like the line lay, I would throw in another guide, re-space and tape, and try again.

I'm building my first spiral wrapped rod, and I ran into an "issue" using the above method. My guide train is a KW10, KW5.5, then size 4 KB and KT runners to the tip. On this Fishing Tackle Unlimited 6'9" Light Fast rod, APL1-69 USA, it was taking 10 guides to pass the static load test with the fractional spacing. I felt like 10 guides is a bit much for this rod, so I tried using the static load guide in the library. I placed the first guide at 4" with the stripper at 48 1/2" (20" from the reel face). I used 10 guides to start and placed all guides at 5" from the first guide. I walked through the article and had to move most guides forward until the butt where I was able to eliminate one guide. Here's what I ended up with:

4 - 4 1/4 - 4 5/8 - 4 13/16 - 4 9/16 - 4 15/16 - 5 1/16 - 7 5/8 - 8 5/8

I have this OCD thing where I really don't like the guide spacing to get smaller as it goes, so I played with it in Excel a little bit and I think this is close enough to still work

4 - 4 1/4 - 4 5/8 - 4 13/16 - 4 7/8 - 4 15/16 - 5 - 7 3/8 - 8 5/8

My question to the board is, is 9 guides too much for a 6'9" Light Fast rod? Should I try to eliminate one more guide by pushing the stripper forward and stretching the spacing among the last 3 guides?

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 27, 2018 11:56AM

Seth, I also don’t like non progressive spacing, I like to progressively increase the distance between guides. I also don’t like using fractions of inches, so I use the metric system for spacing guides, much easier to work with, and easier on your brain. I got my metric/English tape measure at Northern Tool.
For a nine guide layout you could use the following spacing for your rod starting at the tip.in cm:
9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 22 cm
For an eight guide layout you could try the following:
10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 20, 25 cm
Both layouts give a guide train that is 123 cm long or about 48.5” which is the same length as yours. With the stripper about 20” from reel.
You can static test and cast test both and see which you like better. I think both will give a good static test, and cast well. Hope this helps
Norm

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: November 27, 2018 12:13PM

Seth,
I have a different method that works very well for me, for all guide types.

I have the rod handle, reel seat and tip top in place.

Then, I just began to deflect the rod by pushing the tip against a carpeted floor.

I will put my first guide at the location, where the guide begins to bend. Then, I put a guide 1/2 way between that point and the tip. Then, I will continue to put pressure on the tip and add guides as necessary to insure that the line will follow the contour of the loaded blank.

Very quick, every easy and always 100% accurate.

With a slow action rod, the first guide might be 12 inches from the tip. For a fast action rod, the first guide might be 5 inches from the tip. For an extra fast rod blank the first guide might be 3 inches from the tip.

I just let the bending of the rod quickly and easily tell me where a guide needs to be located.



I assume that you have a handle on the appropriate guide sizes and guide heights for each position.

Since you are spiral wrapping the rod, I would imagine that you would need no more than 7 guides.

Good luck

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: November 27, 2018 12:31PM

Whatever works for you on the stripper and running guides,
we usually tape guides on and then put the rod into a "fighting load bend".
Make a note of the spacing, then turn the running guides under.
But, the transition guide usually wants to be somewhere in the 6-7" range.
I like to transition in 2 guides, and keep them and the runners the same size.
A 'simple spiral with just 1 transition works also.
Lots of info in the library.
Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381
Fax 870-425-0782

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: November 27, 2018 12:51PM

I use elastic thread - available at any sewing supplies store - to temporarily position guides. Four or five wraps, pull on thread ends until there's hardly any elasticity, tie a square knot and the guide is securely fixed to the rod. No adhesive or goo on the rod blank and the guide can be moved around the blank and up and down a short way. Touch the adhesive thread with a razor and it leaps off the blank. No cleanup. With double-foot guides I cut the elastic thread off one foot, wind the thread on that foot, then cut the thread on the other foot and apply wrappings.

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 27, 2018 03:46PM

One note if you do a "simple spiral" - there are no transition guides. The line goes from the top to the bottom without requiring anything in-between those 0 and 180 guides. Some people will go back and locate a guide on the 90 axis to function as something to keep the line from rubbing the blank, but such a guide does not transition nor direct the line anywhere.

.........

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Seth Johnson (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: November 27, 2018 04:49PM

Thanks guys. I'm doing the Forhan "Revolver" spiral. I normally do a KW 10, KW 5.5, then a KB 4 to 4 runners. Should I use a different guide train for this?

After looking at this several more times, I can't get the static load to work with less than 9 guides. I get too extreme of an angle between the forward running guides. I think it's just a lighter rod than I'm used to working with.

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 27, 2018 05:46PM

It takes what it takes. If you're using lightweight guides, then it won't be an issue.

..............

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: November 27, 2018 06:00PM

Seth,
With a fast rod, you might need to have 3 guides on the first 12-18 inches of rod.

That is fine - then, just take the 4 remaining guides and space them back down the rod.

Get your 3 tips guides spaced right, and then, just space 3 more guides down the rod and see how it goes.

Not unusual at all to have 12-15 inches of space between the transition guide and the first running guide. It may be as much as 20 inches

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: November 27, 2018 06:05PM

Your guides should be fine, Rich's revolver system doesn't put a guide closer than 4 1/2 inches from the tip, if the tip is larger than a 5 than it's a 5 inch spacing from the tip top. Rod power isn't part of the equation. Blank action isn't in the mix either and frankly I've never really seen a blank that Rich's formula didn't work with .Is it always optimal? No, but it's never been off to the point I thought reliability, or function was a concern.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2018 06:54PM by Spencer Phipps.

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: November 27, 2018 06:06PM

Double post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2018 06:08PM by Spencer Phipps.

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Re: Guide spacing help
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: November 28, 2018 01:05PM

I am in the process of building a 6'9" spiral wrapped rod and am using 9 guides. I have built about 20 6'9" rods this way in the last 5 years using 10 or 9 guides + a tip top. I have settled on 9 guides for this type of build. I position the stripper (Fuji RV 6mm) about 21" from the face of the reel and the first runner at 3.25" from the tip. The blanks I use are medium light power and fast or extra fast action. The stripper is at 0 degrees and the forth guide from the reel is at 180 degrees. The 2 guides between should follow the line from the 0 degree guide to the 180 degree guide and keep the line off the blank even when under load. This particular build has guides and spacing like this (measured from TT): KT4-3.25”, KT4-6.937”, KT4-11.125”, KB4-15.812”, KB4-21.062”, KB4-26.875”, KB4-33.375”, KB5-40.5” and RV6-48.375”. The back reel seat anchor point is set 9.25” from the end butt. This blank is a NFC P703-1 (Lambda LMX) cut down to 6’8.75” (with butt nets 6’9”).

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