Ok watched too many youtube videos and got confused again. Looking for thoughts on spine location of a blank and how to orientate guides to the spine.

I have always used a spine finder that holds the blank horizontal. I roll the blank as I bend the the tip to the floor. Now is the spine on the top of the blank or the bottom? Inside the bend or outside?

Been awhile since I have built rods. Last rod I built I could not find a real discernible spine. Blank had a very slight curve to it. I positioned the curve as the underside of the rod and positioned the guides along it.

As I think back I seem to recall to call the top of the blank the spine with my method of finding the spine. Guide position would be on the spine for casting and 180 degrees from the spine for spinning. Correct?

Michael

Yes, the spine is on top, or outside the curve, when the rod section is under stress, and yes, guides on the spine for bait casting, and guides inside the spine for fly and spinning rods.

However, lots of folks these days build on the straightest axis without regard to the spine. The thinking is the spine has minimal impact on casting and fighting a fish.

All rods with guides on top will attempt to twist under load. Rods with guides on the bottom, will not. this remains true regardless of spine orientation.

So spine is really irrelevant. You might want to read this - [www.rodbuilding.org]

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What, precisely, will aligning the guides with the spine accomplish, and with what type of rods? bait rods? boat rods? casting rods? trolling rods? spinning rods? Will aligning guides with the spine improve accuracy? appearance? casting distance? durability? strength?

Phil

I primarily build fly rods and only occasionally build to the "dark side" - spin and bait cast. The devotees of detecting and building on or opposite the spine would answer yes, dead lift, accuracy, distance, etc. will improve. But (there is always a but) as presented in the article linked by Tom K above, the dead lift performance is in the margins. And regardless of guide orientation to the spine (or spines as in is not uncommon for a blank to have 2 spines with 1 usually more predominate), a rod with guides on the zero axis (on top) will be inherently unstable. That's the reason Roberts wrap rods (aka spiral wrap or acid rods) are popular.

I've built rods on and opposite the predominate spine and frankly could detect no benefit for fly rods 8 weight or less, and for 9 weights and greater I think I can sometimes feel the difference on the back cast but a truly objective measure is beyond me.

I build with guides on the inside of the straightest axis of carbon fiber and glass rods unless the manufacturer recommends otherwise. For bamboo rods I build with the guides on the inside of the blank's natural curve under light pressure. Given the price of a quality bamboo blank, if the blank is not straight it's going back.

Donald: I have built and used a number of fly rods. I figured if I built a rod with the spine on the "right" side on the forecast the spine would be on the "wrong" side on the backcast - which is just as important as the forecast as we all know, so I just try to build fly rods on the straightest axis of each section.

Phil

Yep, we build 'em the same - straightest axis.

Heck, even if there was a significant advantage for guides on or opposite the spine, I wonder how many fly fishermen would adjust their casting technique to be certain the guides and spine are in the casting plane.

Well I was feeling less confused. Now you throw straightest axis at me. I looked through older threads on here about straightest axis. Seems very subjective unless the blank has a very obvious curve. The blank i have has only a very slight curve,maybe,in the last 18 inches or so. Actually a compound curve. Left for about four inches and then back to the right. But it is very slight. Two other people cannot pick it up.

So the take away for me is straightest axis when obviously curved. Position the curve to the top of the rod. To calm my slight OCD go with the spine on rods I cannot detect a major bend. Otherwise I will be looking at the damn rod every time I use it wondering if I picked the right axis.

Thanks again for all the help. Really enjoy the hobby. Wish I could do it more. Completely quite after losing a index finger and a portion of a thumb several years ago. Makes things very frustrating and slow. Lot of times seems like we need three complete hands to wrap a rod, let alone two incomplete ones.But knowing exactly what rod would fit a situation and not being able to buy it is equally as frustrating. That is what drew me back.

If spine orientation was important then not orienting it "properly" would result in all sorts of maladies. And it doesn't. The idea that the blank wants to bend along a particular axis is false - rod blanks don't want to bend, period. That's why when you bend them and release, they return to straight. It is their resistance to bending that allows them to function as fishing rods. Don't fret over this. Most commercially rod makers utilize the straightest axis.

Support the rod blank with two rod supports on the last foot or so of the butt. Level. Put a lined card or lathe live center, or anything that gives you a point of reference, at the tip end. Now rotate the blank and watch the tip as it travels in an oval or circle. No rod blank is as straight as you think it might be. When the tip reaches the highest point in its travel, you have the upward curve dialed in.

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Michael,
To make it really simple.
Take the blank, glue on the reel seat, tape on the guides, wrap the guides and glue on the tip top - coat the guides and go fishing.

Good luck

I agree with Tom and others about spine orientation being no big deal , i do wonder why the leading rod building supply companies continue to make it sound critically important though & it's shown as one of the first things you must figure out when they show on how to build a rod .

It's "old school" goes back to early fiberglass and carbon fiber, when blanks were thicker and heavier. With modern blanks being thinner walled, lighter and end use specific, the spine has become less prominent and irrelevant! Building one way or another on the spine has no benefit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2018 05:29PM by Phil Erickson.

Yep, straightest axis. Conventionally wrapped casting rod, guides on the concave side of the curve. Spinning rod, spiral wrapped rod, guides on the convex side of the curve. Let gravity make the blank appear straight when holding it horizontally.