Well it’s Xmas season and it’s time to build some rods for presents... One of my presents will be a pitching rod built on a 7’6” Blank from American Tackle. Looking to do my first spiral wrap (casting) and was hoping to get some input or advice on guides and sizes that have worked best.

Jay

You did not indicate line or lure weight, but, assuming 30# or less line I've used ATC's MicroWave casting guide sets and had good results with the few bait casters I build.

Jay,
Just use the same guides that you would use for a conventionally wrapper rod, but rotate them as needed. If, after rotating the guides and running line through them, you can tweak the position and or size of the guide to optimize your like flow off the reel to the tip of the rod.

Good luck

It’s a pitching rod, more likely 20 pound test flouro normally and lures of around 3/8-3/4 ounces. Texas rigged creature baits... I normally use Microwave guides, just really like the results with Microwaves just wasn’t sure they were good for a spiral wrap. As far as placement on the blank how many guides does it usually take to transition around the blank. Have some ideas as to the layout just wanna make sure I am on the right path.

Jay,
You can use one, two, three, four or five guides to get around the blank. It is your choice.

A lot of folks only use one guide at 90 degrees to the first guide.

I personally like to use 3 guides.

The choice is entirely up to you.

-----------
I personally would not use a microwave set of guides for a spiral wrap since it just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to use such a setup. But your experience may be entirely different.
The key is for the 2nd guide to be pretty small and very close to the blank. You want to disturb the line the least as it goes around the blank. You just want a wear member for the line to slip around the blank without rubbing against the rod. So, you do not want to have any height at all on that 2nd guide.

Good luck

I been using 3 guides to do my wraps with to get the line around, i even offset my first guide about 10 degrees.

Bruce,
10-4. I do exactly the same.

With respect to offsetting the first guide:
I use the following procedure to determine if any offset is necessary and if so, how much.

After the guides are all taped in place but not wrapped, I will mount the reel that I plan to use on the rod and then pull about 30 feet off of the reel after the line has been threaded through the guides.

Then, I use my foot with my sock on the foot to put pressure on the line. Then, without touching the line, I reel the line back onto the reel. If I find that the line is stacking up on one side of the reel as I reel in the moderately tight line, I will rotate the first guide in the necessary direction to correct the line stacking problem.

Then, I will pull line off the reel and retest. I will continue to test and tweak the first guide until I find that the line stacks perfectly across the reel as one would desire.

I have found that a reel can have a line stacking problem, even with with a guide to stack the line, if the guide is causing the line to be off center.

Good luck

I have had some problems with offsetting the first stripper guide with the line wanting to spool higher on one side of the spool. I am sure there is an exact spot where you can do that without issues but I just put the stripper at 0 degrees. I do move the the guides, including the stripper at slight angles to follow the line / spiral direction. REC guides are great for spiral wraps, and Microwave guides, although I do not use them, make a good spiral wrap as I have some friends that use them for this. I typically use ceramic guides and with the stripper at 0 and the forth guide from the reel on the bottom at 180. Tape on guides and try to get the line coming from the reel as straight as possible. The the guide placement should follow a line to the choke point with the forth guide being somewhere a little in front of the choke point. This guide should also be behind the major arc of the bend of the rod. When I talk of front and back, I am saying the front is the tip and the back is the butt. Guide placement will also be based on the line staying off the blank under load. I would use at least 10 (consider 11) guides on a 7' 6" rod. My guide sizes would be 6mm, 5mm and 4.5mm for the rest and a 4.5mm TT. Using more guides will give you a wider range of placement for the spiral. Keep the line as straight as possible. Have fun with it but once you start fishing with one that is done right you won't go back to conventional. Casting rods with conventional wraps base on one guide per rod foot put the line under the blank when it is under load, a good spiral wrap the line never touches the blank, even under load.

I do static test everything before i wrap the guides to be sure of placement and adjust accordingly, my first guide is usually a 10 or 12, also like using a little taller standing guide on the first and second guide as i have found the line will rub on top of the guide, just an observation. I have used the air wave guides which seem to work well.

I find using a larger "stripping" (butt) guide helps with the "stacking" issue.
Something like a sz 12 or 16 stripper, then whatever the running guide sizes are for the rest.
We like 2 foot for the butt guide and the next 3, 2 of them "transition".
Then 1 foot the rest of the way, or also 2 foot if you want extra security.
Sizes might be 04 or 05 for all except the stripper.
Running and transition guides might be larger (06 or 08) if knots are an issue.
And a sz 20 or 25 stripper if a higher frame reel, like a trolling setup.
The stripper guide usually is at 22" to 24" from the front of the reel for all sizes..
That also helps ease stacking.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

Figured that the Micro/Air Waves would be slightly taller than normal guides and would help to keep the line away from the blank. Not married to the idea of using these, what guide types are most having success with? Stacking should not be a major issue in this build, as the rod is only going to be used for pitching and wont have enough line coming off the reel to really see the issue.

Jay,
You may be slightly missing the point with a spiral wrap.

Actually with a spiral wrap, you want the line to virtually rub the side of the blank as it goes around the blank.

Thus, the idea to use a stripper guide that is not so tall, and to use a very short 2nd guide as the line circles the blank.

You essentially want the line to follow the shortest path around the rod and that is such that the line is virtually brushing the blank. Hence the use of a very short guide for the 2nd guide such that the bottom of the ring is virtually resting on the blank or very close to it.

This will mean that you will be deflecting the line the least as it encircles the blank and make for a smoother line flow.

Just try an experiement, where you put on your first stripper guide, and then put on a 3rd guide 25 inches down the blank on the under side of the blank. Then, run your line from your reel to the stripper to the first guide and then the 3rd guide and on out to the tip.

Now, just put guides of appropriate sizes and heights on the running line to barely keep the line off of the blank and you will be set.

Let the line flow dictate the size, height and placement of the guides and you will be good to go.

Be safe

Jay,
A Fuji RV 6mm is tall for its ring size and will make a stripper that works very well for spiral wraps. You will not need to use a 10mm or 12mm to get the height and will not have spooling problems.

Slightly missed the point haha! Grasping the concept completely now though.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jay,
> You may be slightly missing the point with a
> spiral wrap.
>
> Actually with a spiral wrap, you want the line to
> virtually rub the side of the blank as it goes
> around the blank.
>
> Thus, the idea to use a stripper guide that is not
> so tall, and to use a very short 2nd guide as the
> line circles the blank.
>
> You essentially want the line to follow the
> shortest path around the rod and that is such that
> the line is virtually brushing the blank. Hence
> the use of a very short guide for the 2nd guide
> such that the bottom of the ring is virtually
> resting on the blank or very close to it.
>
> This will mean that you will be deflecting the
> line the least as it encircles the blank and make
> for a smoother line flow.
>
> Just try an experiement, where you put on your
> first stripper guide, and then put on a 3rd guide
> 25 inches down the blank on the under side of the
> blank. Then, run your line from your reel to the
> stripper to the first guide and then the 3rd guide
> and on out to the tip.
>
> Now, just put guides of appropriate sizes and
> heights on the running line to barely keep the
> line off of the blank and you will be set.
>
> Let the line flow dictate the size, height and
> placement of the guides and you will be good to
> go.
>
> Be safe

I was under the impression that you did not want the line to rub the blank as it makes it's transition around the blank as it causes friction and less casting distance. This is what i picked up on reading the archives here. Maybe i understood wrong.

Bruce,
Absolutely, you do not want the line to rub on the blank.

This is the reason that I suggested that you place your first and 3rd guide and tip and thread the line through the guides.

Then, at the location, where the line is going around the blank and is rubbing against the blank, you place a guide, so that the line goes around the blank, through the very short guide to minimize any extra line stress, and is just high enough to keep the line off of the blank.

i.e.
If the line is rubbing against the blank at any spot, change the guide size, height or location or all three to eliminate the line rubbing on the blank.

Good luck

Thanks for the clarification, I was under the same impression to about the line against the blank. I will proceed forward, thanks Roger.