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Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: November 04, 2018 03:18AM

Been out of the loop for a while. Did my first rod in about 15 years last winter. Not the prettiest work but fit my needs perfectly. Anyways I have decided to try another one to fit a specific fishing situation.

I am planning on building on a MHX ST1262. 10'6" ML steelhead salmon blank. Will be building as a spinning rod. Blank is on the upper end of the power I want. But the action is exactly what I am looking for. Looking to build as light as possible.

My last rod I built I used the Pacbay minimas. Was a ultralight stream trout rod. They worked out great. A bit of a pain to wrap the small running guides, but I am out of practice. I am running light fluorocarbon line on that rod.

This next build will be for spring pond trout. Need the length to steer fish around a lot of obstacles and debris when fishing from shore. Fish run much larger average trout is about 16 inches. With the fish size and debris I want to run braid with a fluorocarbon leader.

I am concerned about the minimas and how well they will hold up to braid.

Bottom line I need suggestions for the lightest guides that will handle braid. Starting point for sizes and number of guides. Reel will be a large arbor pflueger. My thinking is I will need a rather high guide for my stripper guide due to the large spool diameter.

I have looked over various websites. I am at info overload. I can find the typical generic guide set recommendations and spacing. Looking for the optimal setup though. No sense building it if I am not getting the best I can out of the setup.

Any advice is appreciated.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Jay Dubay (---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: November 04, 2018 06:30AM

If you use a good tip top with a Minima guide train, I can't see you having any problems, I personally use a lot of them, In heaver applications with no problems, My 3/4 to 1oz Jigging rod's their 3 years old now, Minima Guides look great, Fishing walleye's in the Detroit and Saint Clair river's, reeling Braid Up and Down in 35-40 feet of water probably up to 100 times or more a day with lots of days, year after year, No issue's! Large arbor pflueger spool diameter? I sure others will Chime in as well !!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 06:33AM by Jay Dubay.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 04, 2018 07:28AM

Cannot argue with Jay's experience-I know what he is doing is a tough duty cycle. I suggest a SIC tiptop, titanium alloy for the lightest that will confidently do the job.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: November 04, 2018 11:47AM

Michael,
I wouldn't concern myself with the Minima guides and your build, G Loomis was using the Pac Bay match guides your using,on their steelhead rods, long before the first long, narrow spool reel was here.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: November 04, 2018 06:52PM

The reel is a size 30 with the spool being a fuzz over 2" diameter. I am running 8 lb braid to 6 lb fluorocarbon.

Appreciate feedback on the minimas with braid. With the previous rod I used the minima match then dropped down to the minima model f for my running guides. Used the matching minima tip. Overall happy with the setup. Just seemed on the light side as for durability. Rod is for specialized use and limited use so probable be just fine doing similar setup.

Other option would be going ceramic match guides dropping down to ceramic running guides. Would give me peace of mind, even though probable not needed. If I went the ceramic route what would be a good balance of weight to strength to price of the different brands?

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: November 04, 2018 07:21PM

The Minima running guides will hold up just fine to braid. Braid is all I use and I have had no problems. I have recently started using a ceramic tiptops, because grooving it is basically restricted to the tiptop. Ceramic tip tops will last for many many years of hard fishing without grooving
Norm

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: November 04, 2018 09:14PM

My G Loomis rods start with a 20 match ceramic guide and end with 4 mm ceramics and tip top, 20 lb. braid to 8 lb. fluoro goes through them fine, so the non-ceramics should be great.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: November 04, 2018 10:33PM

That was about what I was thinking. Probable due 5s for my running guides. Those 4s are so darn tiny to wrap and run line through. Also might see some cold weather use and the 5s won't ice up as quick. What size guides transition from the 20 down to the 4s? I will try different sizes for my setup. Just need to have a starting point and order enough guides to have on hand to figure the best combo. Thanks for all the info from everyone. Helped alot I tend to overthink things.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: November 04, 2018 10:49PM

The reduction train would be 20M, 10M, and 5M (or 6M) to F runners in a size of your choice. The PacBay M guides are very close in height to Fuji KL-H guides, so you can use the KR GPS at Anglers Resource to set up your guide train. I would use about 10-12 guides total, not counting the tip top. [anglersresource.net]
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 11:02PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: November 04, 2018 11:39PM

Thanks great resource to approximate guide placement. Guide sizes you recommended fall right about what i was thinking. Is there any real advantage of using the real small running guides. Weight cannot be much different between say 6s and 4s. Ring size will be 5 on the tip.Last rod I built was the first one I did with micro guide setup. Seems like the way to go. Like anything though I am sure it is the finer details that can sometime make a big difference.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: November 05, 2018 12:06AM

The foot of the size 5 Minimas are narrower than the size 4 which has a wider foot to help prevent pullout. If the tip section of the rod is very small you can file the foot down a little. Because of the the hard chrome insert the size 4 runners have an ID that is about the same as a size 5 ceramic runner, or crramic tip top. I mostly use the size 4 runners, but that is just my preference. Size 5 or 4 will both work just fine. What I really like about the Minima guides, is their lightness, an entire set of Minimas will weigh less than one ceramic stripper.
Norm

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: November 05, 2018 03:22PM

Despite rumors to the contrary, PacBay Minimas are heavier than Fuji Alconite KLH, KT, KB and L SS framed guides. The ceramic Alconite ring of the Fuji guide weights less than the stainless ring in the similar sized Minima, they just look thinner. The advantage of the Minima is the price, they are straight up cheaper but are made tough and will last. If you are of the side that believes ring material does not matter, as I am, then Pac Bays are OK. The ceramic material may be a little better for braid, especially at the tip, but I think the main difference is the noise. Ceramic guides tend to be less noisy.

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Eric MONTACLAIR (---.subs.proxad.net)
Date: November 05, 2018 04:38PM

Minima 4 are lighter than Alconite (Minima M vs Alconite KLH) I weighted a lot ;-)
For Alconite KT vs Minima F for isale inner diameter Minima are lighter than Alconite.

So for my scale it.s not a rumor :-)

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Eric MONTACLAIR (---.subs.proxad.net)
Date: November 05, 2018 04:38PM

Minima 4 are lighter than Alconite (Minima M vs Alconite KLH) I weighted a lot ;-)
For Alconite KT vs Minima F for isale inner diameter Minima are lighter than Alconite.

So for my scale it.s not a rumor :-)

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Re: Need Guide Suggestion
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: November 05, 2018 06:17PM

Lance, I think you are mistaken. I have a balance beam scale in my shop and I have demonstrated many times that a 9 guide set of Minima guides, consisting of 20M, 10M, 5M, and six 4w Fs, is approximately the same weight as a single KL20H guide. The entire 9 guide set of stainless minimas weighs approximately 4.3 gms, and entire set of the Titanium TiBlack Minimas weighs about 3 gm, and an entire comparable set of stainless KR guides weighs about 7.1 gm. The smaller the guide the less the weight advantage is on a percentage basis, as expected. I just weighed these guide sets again to verify my numbers. A set of Fuji KR guides are much lighter than a set of Fuji NGC guides.
Norm

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