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Questions for the experts
Posted by: David Tenney (---.sub-174-196-152.myvzw.com)
Date: October 30, 2018 09:33PM

First of all thank you to all that have given guidance so far to a new guy at this.

I have an older, mid 90s, composite/glass? Lew’s 7’ cranking rod. It’s a great rod for small crankbaits and have caught no telling how many fish on it. Last time out I noticed the reel seat was cracked all the way around. Tonight I successfully removed the old cork handle, reel seat and foregrip. I then lightly sanded the butt of the blank and everything looks good. At this point I decided to check the spine of the blank, all the guides are still in place, and it appears when the rod was built at the factory the blank wasn’t spined correctly and the guides are in the wrong place.

So should I just put a new reel seat and handle on it and go with it since it has been this way forever or should I take the old guides off and redo the whole thing?

Thanks!

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Sam Folds III (---)
Date: October 30, 2018 09:50PM

if it was mine id redo the whole thing. just because its factory made doesnt mean it was made correctly…and no, im not an expert by any means



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2018 09:50PM by Sam Folds III.

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: October 30, 2018 10:11PM

Don’t worry about the spine, just Check to see if the guides are on the straightest axis. If so leave them. However, you may be able to enhance performance by using more modern guides which can be much lighter than the old set. As a word of caution this might require stripping the rod completely down, which is not a trivial undertaking for a beginner. If guide wraps are in good shape and you were happy with the rod’s previous performance just leave the guides in place. if the wraps are in poor shape, then remove the guides and rewrap them in the same location.

Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2018 10:28PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 31, 2018 07:54AM

Right on, Norm.

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: David Tenney (---)
Date: October 31, 2018 10:14AM

I’ll have another look at it tonight but based on your suggestions will just put a reel seat and handle back on it as is.

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 31, 2018 01:43PM

You have caught huge numbers of fish on the rod.

So, obviously, the rod works very well to catch fish.

No need to change anything.

Put on the new reel seat and grips and go back and catch another ton of fish.

Good luck

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: October 31, 2018 04:44PM

David

Sometimes Ignorance is bliss. If you sent out the rod and had a new seat and handle installed you would have never known about the spine and when you got it back you would have been ecstatic.

I agree with Roger there is no need to change anything. Put on the new reel seat and grips and catch another ton of fish.

Good fishing
John

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: October 31, 2018 06:36PM

Does anyone know how corporate builders of high-end rods determine the size and spacing of the guides on their best blanks? Their methodology would carry a lot of weight with me since they are in what I assume is a highly competitive market and rod performance is critical.

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: October 31, 2018 07:34PM

I certainly won't disagree with the advice of leaving the guides as is if they're in good shape. But I will say that I have an older Shimano crankbait rod that had a (now that I know) less than ideal guide train. It had double foot #6 Fuji LN guides as running guides. I replaced just the running guides with #5 Fuji L guides. It's a completely different rod with the new guides on it. It still works the bait like it used to, it seems more smooth when landing fish, and it casts a LOT farther. Probably 30' if I am really bombing a cast.

I loved the rod before, but I like it much better now. I used 3 more guides than it had on it

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dyn.centurytel.net)
Date: November 01, 2018 10:57AM

I think you might be barking up the wrong tree, Phil. We work both sides of this business and I promise you the custom builder is generally well ahead of the mass market consumer rods. However, it's not necessarily the factories choice. They must pay attention to consumer demand and in the fishing market it seems the consumer would rather be beat with a club than give up a size 40 guide. Fortunately, things are changing.

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: November 01, 2018 11:41AM

Rods are built to satisfy two performance needs: lifting and casting. [Three, if you include "looks".] There is a point where more guides mean worse casting (at least on fly rods), and a point where fewer guides mean worse lifting, fish fighting abilities - although I have never seen any concrete measurements of a rod's qualities other than length and weight (not counting "soulful"). Could it be that builders go to such great pains with guide size and guide spacing but never document the difference these painstaking differences make? I assume reputable rod-making corporations test their products, including guide sizes and spacings, record their results, and build their rods accordingly. Do any custom builders do this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 09:27AM by Phil Ewanicki.

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dyn.centurytel.net)
Date: November 02, 2018 10:13AM

I am sure the scope of application is a bigger factor with factories than most custom builders realize. Factories have to make sure their layouts will work with a very wide variety of decisions the consumer will ultimately make. And then there is the question of inventory when you're buying guides 10 or 20 thousand at a time. You tend to try to use them in multiple layouts to avoid the expense of carrying another item. Factories do a brilliant job of juggling performance and profitability but they can not afford to fine tune a particular rod for a particular reel and line. Custom rod building is not necessarily "better" than factory built but it has a substantial advantage in the specificity of the project and the performance advantages gained from knowing what a single customer is trying to accomplish.

Tape and Test

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: November 02, 2018 04:34PM

Amen Jim !!!

I have looked at the "high dollar" rods (GLX, NRX, Daiwa Steez etc) in tackle show rooms, and prior my learning what I know now (and I'm still learning) I would say the guide trains on those rods are somewhat antiquated. And they have to be for the reasons you listed. IMO those rods would be so much better than they are, if only they were truly built with ultimate performance in mind. And after the blank, it's the guide train. And depending on what the use of the rod will be, I'd go as far to say the guide train, then the blank.

It's crazy how much difference in performance a guide train can make.

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: lorenzo tellez (---)
Date: November 02, 2018 04:54PM

Hello, David, I lost your email address, so I hope you are gonna read this, I just got your check and I deposited it, so todays is Nov 2,Fri so hopefully it will clear by Monday so I can send it off, but the check looks good so I might just send it off monday anyways hope your rod comes out alright, sounds like a really good crank rod, I do a lot of cranking myself, I use a 7ft 6inch med heavy with moderate action on the tip, works out nicely caught a couple of 8 pders so far, on a lipless, anyway have a good one

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Todd Abel (---)
Date: November 02, 2018 06:29PM

Being a new rod builder i guess i'm a little confused on how to put a new reel seat and handle if the guides are still on. Do you over-ream them then slide them on from the but end?

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: November 02, 2018 06:44PM

David,
You might suggest that some of these guide trains are antiquated, but having fished a bunch of these $$$$$$$$$$$ production rods, they certainly do a fine job of casting and they have all certainly caught a bunch of fish for myself.

Just be sure that the latest and greatest of anything is not necessarily the best - it is just the latest and greatest.

If you haven't tried them, just use some of these $$$$$$$$$ rods with their antiquated guides and see how many fish you catch.

Best wishes

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: November 02, 2018 07:26PM

I built a high end Bass rod for A tournament fisherman friend of mine and used KR concept guides. He liked the rod so much he brought me a bunch of his GLoomis NRX and GLX Rods to replace their guide trains with KR concept guides. He could not believe how well the KR concept guides performed, and was especially pleased with the two spinning rods I refurbished as KR concept rods. In my opinion, a well setup modern guide train does add an extra level of performance.
Norm

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Re: Questions for the experts
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: November 02, 2018 08:44PM

Roger, I never said the high dollar rods I mentioned weren't good, or even great rods. But they aren't what they could be, and they aren't the designed for ultimate performance rods that some of their owners tout them to be.

As far as me trying one of those rods, and I have very briefly, to see how many fish I catch ..... why would I want to, when I can build one that performs just as good, or better? I would liken that to having to use a rotary dial telephone, simply because a lot of phone calls were placed on them in the past.

And finally concerning the latest and greatest not necessarily being the best. There was a time when nylon mono filament fishing line was touted as being the bee's knees. Not so much anymore.

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