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Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---.dhcp.hspr.ca.charter.com)
Date: October 20, 2018 06:44PM

Many moons ago, there was the the fleaflicker blanks that were solid carbon fiber.

Currently, there are quite a number of Japanese rod manufacturers that are making solid carbon fiber blanks. I know of at least where 50% of the blank is solid carbon fiber. There may be another that is making the entrie blank out of carbon fiber. Since I only follow UL rods, I know only of these being made for UL.

Does anyone know if any solid carbon fiber blanks are available in the USA? Would love to get my hand on one to test. I am told by users that they solid blanks are significantly more sensitive than tubular blanks.

Thanks!
UL

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---)
Date: October 20, 2018 06:58PM

I would think it would be just the opposite.
Herb

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 20, 2018 08:27PM

No, they're not. Not even close. The greatest stiffness for the weight is a tube, not a solid shaft. Sensitivity has much to do with stiffness to weight ratio. Solid carbon shafts will never come close to equalling a carbon tube in terms of sensitivity.

.............

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Chuck McIntyre (---)
Date: October 21, 2018 03:49AM

Mo,if the fleaflicker blanks you are referring to were made for Dale Clemens Custom Tackle,that is incorrect. Only the tip area was solid graphite. It was only about 12 inches long,or thereabouts. The rest of the blank was tubular.

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: October 21, 2018 02:41PM

I imagine there could be made a a direct comparision between the difference in performance between tubular and solid glass blanks. I only had one Flea Flicker blank and it had an extremely small tip, in comparison the our blanks of the time. like many of the japanese blanks

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: October 21, 2018 05:14PM

Is "Flea Flicker" a copyrighted brand name? I have used Cortland "Flea Flicker" monofilament line ever since invasive water fleas were introduced into our waters, probably from the same area where Flea Flicker solid carbon rod blanks were/are made.

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Chuck McIntyre (---)
Date: October 21, 2018 07:50PM

Phil, the Apogee FleaFlicker blanks were made in Japan. The plant burned down and never rebuilt.

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Dan Ertz (---.dsl.airstreamcomm.net)
Date: October 22, 2018 09:06AM

There are solid carbon blanks sold as ice fishing blanks. The longest I know of is 48." Also being solid they can be sanded to adjust the action.

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Robert Drabik (---.ostnet.pl)
Date: October 22, 2018 04:32PM

MATAGI produces solid carbon blanks from Japanese manufacturers.
It has two models:
T-Russell Auriga Area-II TR60ACS-XUL
and
T-Russell AURIGA NUOVO! TR60CSN

Both are easily available in Japan, so bringing them to the US is not a problem.
The sensitivity seems higher compared to tubular blanks.
However, the balance is much worse. The blanks are heavy.

These blanks are popular in Europe, I built many rods on them.
The advantage is resistance to damage plus a very small diameter.

__________________
BRC Rods USA
Best Rods Center Poland

Distributor of luxury Japanese blanks, guides and lines.
SUZUKI BLANKS, Carefully made in Tokyo, Japan

[brcrods.com]

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---.dhcp6.chtrptr.net)
Date: October 22, 2018 06:34PM

Thanks everyone.

Yes, I have always subscribed to the wisdom that power to weight ratio is a primary determinant of sensitivity. And also that for a given weight using the same material, solid blanks provides less power than tubular blanks.


However, I've been dialoguing with enthusiasts who use high end JDM (Japanese) UL rods and the solid blanks are supposedly more sensitive. These are rods in the $300 to $500+ range. Too rich for me but does not prevent me from wondering about solid blanks. I note that teh blanks are solid, at most, on the upper half. Some are solid only in the top few inches. So there are variances.


Thanks for the lead on Matagin and the ice fishing blanks. Any lead as to which ice fishing blanks use high modulus carbon fiber for minimal weight for a given power?

Also, why would ice fishing be using solid carbon fiber blanks?

Thanks again for so many responses. Much gratitude.

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---.dhcp6.chtrptr.net)
Date: October 22, 2018 06:45PM

Robert Drabik,

In case you are still following this thread.

The T-Russell Auriga Area-II TR60ACS-XUL seem promising though it IS heavy compared to tubular blanks. When you say sensitivity 'seem higher', would you elaborate? Does it seem to be a substantial improvement or just minor?

And is that T-Russell the only available solid tip blank for rod builders? Many manufacturers make their own but do not sell as blanks.

Thanks!

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---.dhcp6.chtrptr.net)
Date: October 22, 2018 07:34PM

And for what it's worth, some of the JDM rods are remarkably light in spite of having a solid carbon fiber tip. Abu Garcia makes one that is 6' 8" with a reel seat and weighs in at exactly 2.0 ounces. It does use Titanium Torzites.


Gamatkatsu makes a solid tip rod at 6' 10" that comes in at 1.76 ounces.

So these are pushing the edges of a production rod to show what weight reductions are possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2018 07:43PM by Mo Yang.

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 22, 2018 11:29PM

Mo,
Over the years, I have built many many ice fishing rods.
Several years ago, I stopped using tubular blanks for ice fishing when basically an entire years production broke in the hands of various users.

The biggest problem is that the tubular blanks have very thin walls and often when the guides get filled with ice, a user will end up beating the end of the rod on the ice to knock the ice out of the guides. The results are inevitable

The other issue is the typical very short length of ice fishing rods and their blanks. It is really tough to get a nice soft tip in a graphite tubular blank without having the tip so tiny that it is virtually guaranteed to . fail.

Then, enter solid blanks made of either fiberglass or graphite.

Solid blanks really made the difference for ice fishing rods. The weight of a short blank is negligible - compared to the positive results of the solid blanks. Even graphite blanks can be make with a relatively softer tip and still be near indestructible.

However, for the very ardent hard core severe cold ice fishermen and or folks that want an extremely flexible blank for those very light mid winter bites when the water is essentially at 32 degrees and the temperature above the ice is -32F - it is tough to beat the solid fiberglass blank. These blanks can essentially be bent in a circle with no damage to the blank.

Another huge advantage of both the graphite and fiberglass solid blank, is that any of these blanks can be sanded by the builder to create the rod blank with the exact action that one desires. Also, the cost of the blanks is generally nice and low, so that even if a mistake is made when shaping or building a rod, the blank expense is nearly negligible.

Good luck

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Robert Drabik (---.ostnet.pl)
Date: October 23, 2018 04:32AM

Mo,
The difference in sensitivity is not overwhelming.
It seems to me that it is about 10-20% better sensitivity than in the tubular blank.
Remember that each of us feels different.
I know one more manufacturer of SOLID CARBON blanks.
This is LEMAX, however, these are blanks intended for salt water, very heavy and very strong.

I will ask my engineers in Japan about the possibility of production and the price of Solid Carbon blanks.
I do not think, however, that it would be an attractive offer.

On the occasion. Solid Carbon Tip is not Solid Carbon blank.

These are quite different constructions.

Here is a 2015 minimalist product from my studio:

[fishingandhunting.pl]

The project was about how the lower costs combined with the lowest weight.

__________________
BRC Rods USA
Best Rods Center Poland

Distributor of luxury Japanese blanks, guides and lines.
SUZUKI BLANKS, Carefully made in Tokyo, Japan

[brcrods.com]

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Dan Ertz (---.dsl.airstreamcomm.net)
Date: October 23, 2018 10:26AM

Mo Yang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks everyone.
>
> Yes, I have always subscribed to the wisdom that
> power to weight ratio is a primary determinant of
> sensitivity. And also that for a given weight
> using the same material, solid blanks provides
> less power than tubular blanks.
>
>
> However, I've been dialoguing with enthusiasts who
> use high end JDM (Japanese) UL rods and the solid
> blanks are supposedly more sensitive. These are
> rods in the $300 to $500+ range. Too rich for me
> but does not prevent me from wondering about solid
> blanks. I note that teh blanks are solid, at
> most, on the upper half. Some are solid only in
> the top few inches. So there are variances.
>
>
> Thanks for the lead on Matagin and the ice fishing
> blanks. Any lead as to which ice fishing blanks
> use high modulus carbon fiber for minimal weight
> for a given power?
>
> Also, why would ice fishing be using solid carbon
> fiber blanks?
>
> Thanks again for so many responses. Much
> gratitude.

Mo - I'm not aware of any claims or discussions of high or low modulus regarding solid carbon ice rod blanks. The blanks are low cost probably due to ease of manufacturing compared to tubular blanks, with many in the $8 to $20 range. They can be sanded to the action you desire so maybe short solid blanks extended with tubular blanks would be interesting to experiment with for a UL rod?

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 23, 2018 12:26PM

Dan,
Shakesphere rods have been making some of their rods this way for many many years.

When you see advertising showing the rods being bent in a full circle, often these rods have a solid end 2 feet with the rest of the rod tubular.

A proven concept that works very well.

Good luck

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Dan Ertz (---.dsl.airstreamcomm.net)
Date: October 23, 2018 02:55PM

Roger,
I didn't think about the tops on Shakespeare's Ugly Stiks being solid fiberglass, but it makes sense since they look "clear." Someone I spoke with years ago told me how he and a bait shop owner were talking about the Ugly Stiks he had in his shop and he asked him "Do you think you can really bend them like they do in the commercials?" I would guess that they bent them DOWN instead of in a circle because they snapped all them that the bait shop had in stock - a bad day for warranty returns.....

Mo,
If you build a solid carbon tipped rod please be sure to post your impressions of it.

Dan

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date: October 23, 2018 09:24PM

I am so very grateful for all the insightful comments. I am much helped. As always, what a GREAT forum!!

Roger, your experience on ice fishing blanks is excellent. If I may, do have two more questions:

1. Do you find that very light/flexible tips actually help with bite detection better than stiffer tips? In the past, I've always thought that maximum sensitivity come from the highest power to weight ratio. however, I recently tested a 3wt fly blank with soft tip and was surprised to find that it may actually be more sensitive in detecting a particular kind of bite - when small native trout are nibbling at the edges of what is being offered. That was an interesting discovery that is cauting me to rethink how to define sensitivity.

2. What is the longest solid tip (or even entire solid blank) carbon fiber blanks currently being made that is in the UL or L category? And who makes it?

Robert, truly grateful that you chimed in. in my research, I found that a lot of postings online are from what seem to be Polish and/or Russian sites. That shuts me out as I can read neither and Google translate is not always the easiest to use on all these sites, especially if they are video commentaries. That is a beautiful page you linked, wonderful photography, beautiful rod, and even more, gorgeous trout!! I'll get to google translate your site later this evening but want to say HUGE thanks and happy to make your acquaintance.

Dan, if I do get to find a suitable solid tip blanks to build up and then get to test it properly, will give feedback.

Thanks everyone!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2018 09:28PM by Mo Yang.

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Robert Drabik (---.ostnet.pl)
Date: October 24, 2018 10:25AM

Mo,
If you are looking for blanks with SOLID CARBON TIP, I can give you several manufacturers.
I made fishing rods on all these blanks and I have them on sale.

Matagi (Made in japan) many models.
Justace (Japanese brand, but made in China or Korea)
Black Hole Korea (a few models AiRockFish Made in Korea)

__________________
BRC Rods USA
Best Rods Center Poland

Distributor of luxury Japanese blanks, guides and lines.
SUZUKI BLANKS, Carefully made in Tokyo, Japan

[brcrods.com]

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Re: Anyone making solid carbon fiber blanks?
Posted by: Robert Drabik (---.ostnet.pl)
Date: October 29, 2018 03:10AM

Short movie with the possibilities of AURIGA XUL, 5g max, Full Solid Carbon.

[youtu.be]

__________________
BRC Rods USA
Best Rods Center Poland

Distributor of luxury Japanese blanks, guides and lines.
SUZUKI BLANKS, Carefully made in Tokyo, Japan

[brcrods.com]

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