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First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Brian Cheung (142.120.89.---)
Date: October 18, 2018 02:27AM

Hey everyone,
I was looking at a rod to buy myself for my birthday and decided to try my hand at building one instead. I mostly throw jerkbaits, crankbaits and unweighted senkos for bass/small pike.

Here is what i ordered- point blank 69mxf blank, bt250 winn grip butt grip, 3.5" multipurpose winn grip, PTSMPJK 17 Fuji casting reel seat with hidden thread and back stop, BR230DR base ring, CTC247R carbon thread cover, WCH14R winding check, RT23R winding check for between grip and reel seat, winn wcc125 winding checks x2, Fuji fazlite k double foot guide size 6 (x1), Fuji fazlite k single foot belly guide size 5 (x1), size 4 (x8), fazlite tangle-free tops with bc grey 4-5, alps drop shot hook keeper, 3 spools of Fuji nocp size a thread, thread master high build, and ultimate gel 15 min epoxy.

I honestly spent hours trying to figure out the parts, do you see any thing that I missed or should have done differently? Planning to build some v stands out of wood with felt, and use a book to tension the thread, and then hand turn every 15 mins while the thread master cures. I also have some cheap parts for a spinning rod im going to attempt to build first. Any tips would be greatly appreciated! Sorry for the long winded post, thanks for your time.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dyn.centurytel.net)
Date: October 18, 2018 10:28AM

For a newbie, you are about to build one heckuva a rod! I think it's great that the first shot out of the box you have nailed the proper use of Perfect Fit Trim yet folks with decades of experience sometimes have trouble understanding how the parts fit together. Ah, the power of the written word! The time you spent to "figure out the parts" will come back to you in spades.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: October 18, 2018 12:54PM

You nailed the blank, I have one for the same purposes you outlined, and love it. The only thing I did different with the guide train was to use a KW10 and KW5.5 for the reduction train, but yours should work fine. I hand turned rods for years before getting dryer motors. I would suggest to turn the rod one quarter turn every 5 mins for the first 15 to 20 min. Then turn every 10 min for the next 45 to 60 min, then every 15 to 20 min for the next 1 - 2 hrs. During the first turn or two check to see if you have any sagging, if you do remove the sag, the epoxy will self level after doing so, but only if you do it early. Threadmaster high build sets up quicker than most others finish epoxy, and thus should not sag after about 2 hrs depending on ambient temperature. Keep the unused mixed epoxy around so you can test how much it has set at various times. I found that handing turning gave me an appreciation for how much epoxy to use in order to get a good finish, that covers and self levels.
Norm

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 18, 2018 09:34PM

Great blank, and I love Fuji guides. I usually recommend, based on my own experience, for starters to use less expensive blanks for first builds since the quality of the builds usually improves a lot between the first few builds.

Next time consider the RV reverse guide for the first guide, more belly guides on such stout midsection blanks, and 5.5 running guides for better knot passage (if you plan on passing knots). If you plan on passing knots with 4's you may want to search for videos on the FG knot. Not a piece of cake to learn, but it is the smallest knot by far.

Look in the library for the Forhan locking loop article. It's easy and very much of an improvement especially for small guide feet. Check this post out: [www.rodbuilding.org] for some tips that will help on holding micro guides before wrapping. (Don't drop a micro onto a dark colored floor-you may only find it with your bare foot. Keep the area below where you are working with the guide clear so you have the best chance of finding it if you drop it.)

I always use SIC tip tops since that is the guide that will groove first, but other materials are said to be braid-capable, so maybe I'm wasting money.

Don't be stingy on reel seat and grip epoxy-most commercial rods fail right there. Buff the blank and mating seat surfaces with scotch pads to assure better epoxy grip. Don't follow this with any fluid, including alcohol. Just wipe clean.

Don't use charts for guide spacing-the XF blanks are not "normal" and guides should be located by stress test. I think the library has an article on that.

I usually apply a thin coat of color preservative over decals to prevent edge lifting from the epoxy. Don't worry if it looks a little funny after application-it will disappear when epoxied. If you are using a pen and paint/ink etc to write on the rod, search the forum for ideas on preventing the epoxy from causing the inks to run. Paints probably won't be affected by epoxy.

Do a check on rod guide alignment before applying color preservative, then again just before applying epoxy. Once they are epoxied, they will not move.



Welcome to the club! I hope you find it as rewarding as I have.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Brian Cheung (142.120.89.---)
Date: October 19, 2018 10:41AM

Thanks for the kind words and helpful advice! I was hesitant to spend so much on my first build but shipping to Canada is around $45usd so I figured why not build something I will use for a long time. I actually have a st croix sc2 spinning rod I will be building first to learn simple wraps and epoxy.

It looks like my order is on a short hold, from the responses it looks like I should rethink my guide system. I will be using straight 12-16 lb fluoro most likely or straight 20 lb braid. Do you guys recommend I add more guides and change the stripper guide to the Fuji rv 6? Or something else? And if I use straight fluoro or braid will the 4s I currently have work? I think i still have time to add another order in before they ship.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: October 19, 2018 11:37AM

The RV 6 only comes in a titanium frame with a Sic or Torzite ring, thus it is more expensive than the stainless guides, and does not match the BC grey frames with Fazlite rings. However, it will match the regular bright stainless frame with Alconite ring. For the stainless KR casting guide setup Fuji recommends the KW10 and KW5.5 followed by the KB/KT runners in a size of your chosing. The KW10 ring is the same height off the blank as the RV6. So really no difference in performance, I have rods set up both ways. Fazlite rings are really nice and quite durable and are less expensive, absolutely nothing wrong with them. Size 4 runners should work well with the line you are using. The Point Blank 69MXF Rod I made for myself has 9 guides total (not counting the tiptop) with size 4.5 runners, and I used 15-30# braid with a fluorocarbon leader attached via an FG knot, with no problems and it performs like a dream. Any size runner from 5.5 to 4 will work, so it’s basically your choice,
Norm

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 19, 2018 12:32PM

Good advice Norm. I forgot about the finish. I go with 5.5's on casting rods because if I decide to use leaders with braid, they will pass knots better than 4's, and I doubt if there is a significant performance difference. Versatility.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Brian Cheung (209.171.88.---)
Date: October 19, 2018 01:51PM

Thanks Norm! So with the fazlite guides I currently have, what would you recommend? I can either get new stripper guides or get a new guide system altogether.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 19, 2018 02:32PM

If you have not already ordered I would get a KW10 just to get the height to reduce any line slap. I know the ceramic ring on the reel is much smaller, but the line does not come off the reel in a straight line. You could leave everything else the same. A 5.5 KB in front of the stripper is just fine. If you feel nervous about the size 4 runners, then go 5 or 4.5. If you are not nervous then keep the 4s. Many people who use other brands of micro guides think size 4s are gigantic, some commercial micro rods use size 2 and 3 microguides from start to finish, for example. Duckett Micro Magic rods, although their more recent rods have been modified some what to a larger stripper.
Norm

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: October 19, 2018 03:53PM

A word on the Duckett Micro Magic rods Norm mentioned. The reason the more recent rods went to a larger stripper is because the original layout was, putting it mildly ..... junk. I have several friends that had them and they performed very poorly. The strippers were just too short. To avoid a severe angle of the line from the reel to the butt guide they pushed the butt guide further way from the reel. Doing so only created more problems.

As Norman alluded to, on casting rods the height of the butt guide plays more of a roll than the ring size of the guide. If you go too short it increases the angle of the line entering it and cuts down on casting distance. Yes you can push it further away from the reel face, but why not just go with a taller guide and take out some guess work?

As far as running guides go, whatever size you choose, I'd order 2 more than you think you'll need. Always better to have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them. The extras become stock for your next build, or if you happen to damage a guide down the road. Personally I use 4.5's as running guides, and that's as small as I'll ever go. And that's only because if I went any smaller I wouldn't be able to see them well enough to run line through them. My old eyes aren't what they used to be. lol

I totally agree with building on a blank that will result in a rod that you be one of the rods you WANT to reach for, as your first build. Just because it's your first build doesn't mean it's going to be a bad build. Mounting reel seats and grips is pretty fool proof, so even if sometime down the road you choose to redo the guides, you'll have a nice foundation to work with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2018 03:53PM by David Baylor.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Brian Cheung (142.120.89.---)
Date: October 19, 2018 04:46PM

Alright so luckily there was a part backordered for my order and I was able to change it. Instead of the guides I have currently, I switched it to a bkw10 going into the fazlite kB 5.5 and then ordered 10 fazlite kB 4.5 and kept the fazlite tip top. If there's something I should order instead of that I think I still have time to change it Monday. Thanks for helping this newbie out!

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 19, 2018 05:54PM

Now that the guide train is figured out, a thought: When a few mm of 1st guide height makes the difference between a well performing rod and a poor performing rod due the change in line angle entering the guide it makes one wonder why the angle of the line on the reel spool to the line guide on the reel doesn't make every rod a poor performer.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Brian Cheung (209.171.88.---)
Date: October 19, 2018 06:37PM

Perhaps daiwa's t-wing system on reels might help with that? Allows greater room and slightly different angles to exit the reel while casting. I don't really see a difference on mine with other reels but maybe it's just that the guide placement of my production rods @#$%& haha

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: October 19, 2018 07:20PM

Michael, the reel's spool to line guide geometry isn't going to affect the rod's performance. Why would it ? (perplexed look)

As far Daiwa's T wing system goes, I've never tried one, and doubt that I ever will. I'm a Shimano guy through and through. But, I do have many friends that swear by the T wing system. They tout it as being much better than the usual system used on other reels. Honestly, I can see that it probably is better. Anything that cuts down on friction between the line and the reel's components, has to be beneficial to casting performance. Whether or not it's "much better" is certainly debatable.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 19, 2018 08:14PM

When I said the rod I really meant the system,, which is what we are dealing with when considering a few mm 's effect on system performance. And if a very subtle change in angle between the line and the first guide can make the system a poor performer, then what about that great big angle between the line on the spool and the level wind guide?

I have a T-wing, and it's very good. But I also have a number of reels without it, and they also perform very well as part of the total system.

My point is that aren't we really dealing with the almost imperceptible when we worry about a few mm of guide height, arguing that it can, by altering the angle the line makes to the 1st rod guide, make the system noticeably better or worse?

If the line's angle to the rod's first guide can materially affect its casting performance, then that drastic angle within the reel should totally destroy the rod's casting performance.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: October 19, 2018 08:26PM

As mentioned above I use whatever butt guide it takes to match the height of an RV-6. From there 2 or 3 KBs, then KTs to the tip. This is Fuji -speak but use what guides you wish. I put the butt guide where I want it, and static test for the rest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2018 08:29PM by Lynn Behler.

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 20, 2018 12:18AM

10-4 on Lynn's comments.

With a spinning reel, try to match the height of the stripper guide to the size of the largest reel that you will put on the rod.

Remember, I did not say, to match the height of the guide to the reel that you are going to use on the rod, but to the reel that will be the largest that you will ever use on the rod.

I suggest this, because often a great rod is used for a very long time and it may go through several generations of reels in its life.

For example, for myself, I carry a bunch of rods that I will fish with on a trip.
I also carry a bunch of reels of different sizes with different lines on the rod that I also plan to use on the trip.
Depending on the circumstances, I may very well put a pretty small reel on a rod with some pretty tall guides, and I may very well put a pretty large reel on a rod with some relatively shorter guides.

As I result, I tend to not generally go too high with a guide set, nor too low with a guide set.

I realize that I may compromise the performance of a rod or two, or a reel or two by doing this, but the method suits my fishing style.

At the end of the day, I consider a fishing rod as a tool to hook and then land fish to be released or consumed. As long as the tool that I use for the job is doing its job, I am very happy with the tool.

Having said that, I would rather err on the side of a guide that is too tall, as opposed to a guide that is too short.

A smaller reel can work pretty well on a rod with a taller than expected guide set. However, a short guide set on a tall reel can result in adverse line performance, as well as line slap on the rod.

Choose a system that works for you and your style and requirements for the fishing rod.

Good luck

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Brian Cheung (142.120.89.---)
Date: October 20, 2018 01:07PM

Thanks for the replies, I think I understand now. I thought the kb's were running guides too, but I realize that they are different. So I'm thinking bckwfg10 double foot guide to bckbfg 5.5 single foot belly guide, to 2 bckbfg 5.0 single foot belly guides, and the rest bckbfg 4.5 single foot running guides (I'll buy 9 and static test from the belly guides onwards to get the distance and number of guides figured out), and then the tip top?

Also it was mentioned about matching spinning guides to the reel, this rod is going to be casting, but I usually use a Shimano 2500 size for spinning. For future reference, what guide height would match that?

So much to learn, thank you all for your patience and help. I would be completely lost without you guys

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 20, 2018 03:32PM

The only difference between the KB and KT gukdes are the size of the foot. The KB has a wider and longer foot and was designed to be used in the midsection (belly) of the rod to resist the pullout forces generated when the rod is loaded. The KT guides have a shorter and thinner foot and were designed to be used in the tip section where these pull out forces are much less. When wrapped the rings are exactly the same. Fuji suggest using both, with 2 or 3 KBs and the rest KTs. However, you can use only KBs as runners, the only draw backs are they weigh a little more and the wider ft makes it more difficult to wrap on a thin tip. The blank you are getting has a thin tip, so I would suggest using both.
Norm

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Re: First build- Point Blank 69mxf
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 20, 2018 03:46PM

For a KR spinning rod using a 2500 Shimano spinning reel. You can use a three reduction guide train containing Fuji KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M, or KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M, depending on the type and size line you use.The reduction guided would be followed by KB/KT running guides in the the size of your choice. You can go to Angler Resources to get all the details you need.
Norm

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