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Handle epoxy
Posted by: Scott Lawrence (---.dyn.iinet.net.au)
Date: September 23, 2018 01:50AM

Hi guy's, Ordering components for my first build this week and just wondering about epoxys for glueing up a nylon slick butt,graphite seat and Eva foregrip.The stuff I am looking at says that it can be heated to 80degrees Celsius and it will release its hold. For a tip top I would have no problem but for butt ,seat and grip I am not so sure. It is on a 15kg standup rod. Any advice be very welcomed.
Tight lines Scott

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: September 23, 2018 02:06AM

So it releases at 128 deg. F. Just a good hot day soaking up all that solar gain from black components.

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: September 23, 2018 02:28AM

Scott,
Do you want the glue to release its hold at 80 degrees C?

Many of the commonly used Epoxy glues and resins are capable of withstanding heat up to 250 degrees C.

[www.threebond.co.jp]

Here is a common epoxy available in the local US hardware stores that are good up to 200 degrees F. or 99 degrees C.

[www.amazon.com]

If you want a higher temperature on your glue - recommended - just do a bit of shopping to find the right product for your use.

Good luck

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Scott Lawrence (---.dyn.iinet.net.au)
Date: September 23, 2018 05:08AM

I DO NOT want the epoxy to release if it gets to hot in the car, boat or under normal use.As I am not sure how hot things can get in a locked car in summer. This epoxy I was looking at is sold as a handle epoxy for rod building here in Australia.I can get Rod Dancer structural epoxy also.Anyone have experience with it?

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 23, 2018 08:00AM

There are plenty of good rod building epoxies on the market. Most any of the suppliers listed to the left will carry them. Many were formulated specifically for rod building tasks. The gel types like Rod Bond, Pro Bond and Flex Coat @#$%& or High Water are all made specifically for the uses you describe.

.................

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Tom Harder (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: September 23, 2018 05:38PM

Personally, I've seen the devcon epoxy fail. And that was their long cure time epoxy. I'm not sure why. It was on a rod I built someone 3 decades ago. Since then I won't use anything that's not industrial grade. Over the years I've tried many. Today, I only use fiberglass laying epoxy from US Composites (and System 3). US Composites is top quality and it is super reasonable. They are great to deal with too. What I have learned from epoxies is that short cure epoxies are not as strong (nor as waterproof). The longer the cure time, the stronger and more waterproof the bond is.

Now, that may have changed over the past decade, I don't know. But, since the epoxy, I mentioned above, failed I don't take it lightly. I should describe how it failed. We went fishing and he showed it to me. I was so embarrassed. It literally split and moved the foregrip up the rod. It stopped at the diamond wrap and stayed there. I took it back, took the whole rod apart and rebuilt it. Now, it may have been my fault, who knows for certain, but it is the only glue failure that's happened to a rod I built in the last 44 years.

I'm sure there are very good makers of epoxies (just make sure) but that's my take on the subject.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2018 05:39PM by Tom Harder.

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Jay Dubay (---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: September 23, 2018 07:05PM

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So it releases at 128 deg. F. Just a good hot day
> soaking up all that solar gain from black
> components.
Might want to recheck that math !! 80 degrees Celsius = 176 degrees



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2018 07:13PM by Jay Dubay.

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Jay Dubay (---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: September 23, 2018 08:20PM

The Importance of Epoxy Glass Transition Temperature
May 10, 2016/in epoxy adhesives, News /
Unlike thermoplastic alternatives such as hot melt adhesives, cured thermosetting epoxies will not re-flow or melt when heated. Instead, epoxies will undergo a transition from a hard rigid state to a more pliable, rubbery state. The temperature range during which this transition takes place is known as the glass transition temperature, Tg.

Although the glass transition temperature of an epoxy (or any other thermosetting adhesive) is generally reported as a single value, the glass transition temperature is really a range. The value presented is typically the midpoint of this transition temperature range.

Glass transition can be understood on a molecular level by considering the change in mobility of the polymer molecules with temperature. At lower temperatures, the polymer molecules are organized in a crystalline type arrangement. This structure is commonly called the “glassy state.” In this state the molecules are locked into position and can only vibrate in place. At higher temperatures, the mobility of the molecules increases and they are able to move more freely. This results in a loss of rigidity and gradual softening of the material to pliable and rubbery state.

There is a marked change in the physical properties of the material below and above the glass transition temperature. Despite these substantial changes, the transition cannot be classified as a phase change. The performance of epoxies generally deteriorates at temperatures above Tg. Physical changes observed above Tg are generally reversible as long as the excursions above Tg are limited in time and temperature. A polymer will return to its original state once the temperature dips below Tg. Long exposure to above Tg temperatures, however, may have a permanent effect on the polymer properties.

Due to the clear change in properties above the glass transition temperature, Tg is considered an extremely useful yardstick for the reliability of epoxies at elevated temperatures. When choosing an epoxy for a high-temperature application, Tg is typically the primary property to consider.

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 23, 2018 08:52PM

In an earlier article from Ralph O'Quinn, it was pointed out that cure time has nothing to do with epoxy strength. However, many quick cure epoxies use poor grade components and this leads to higher than normal fail rates.

..............

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Scott Lawrence (---.dyn.iinet.net.au)
Date: September 24, 2018 04:34PM

Thank you for your advice.
Scott

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---)
Date: September 25, 2018 01:51PM

Scott Lawrence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I DO NOT want the epoxy to release if it gets to
> hot in the car, boat or under normal use.As I am
> not sure how hot things can get in a locked car in
> summer. This epoxy I was looking at is sold as a
> handle epoxy for rod building here in Australia.I
> can get Rod Dancer structural epoxy also.Anyone
> have experience with it?

I use Rod Dancer gel epoxy on all my real seats, grips and butts. Works great and I live in Texas where it gets pretty hot in the summer; I do leave my rod (in a rod tube) in my vehicle all the time and have had no problems.

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Re: Handle epoxy
Posted by: Scott Lawrence (---.dyn.iinet.net.au)
Date: September 25, 2018 04:25PM

Thanks Lance. Think I will spend the extra $ and get the Rod Dancer epoxy. Have not heard of this other stuff mentioned on the board at all. It maybe a product only marketed here in Australia.

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