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Guide spacing
Posted by: Curtis Hollowell (---.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 12, 2018 02:54PM

Hello,

I am new to the forum but have been lurking for a while. I also a m fairly new to rod building with 5 builds under my belt, so please bear with me. My question is regarding a NFC blank (DS 761) that I intend to build a spinning rod out of. I usually buy the guide kits ( Microwave, CRB etc.) and follow the suggested guide spacing from the manufacturer. I noticed on NFC website they have suggested guide spacing for this blank, but it seems they are recommending using only 7 guides. Most of my builds have been with Microwave guides and every rod of this size has included 9 or 10 guides.

If i intend to use Microwave guides should I follow the NFC recommendation or the Microwave suggestion? What are the benefits/drawbacks of following NFC's suggestions vs Microwave's?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Curtis

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 12, 2018 03:45PM

Curtis,
I would use the Microwave suggestion. You are correct about the amount of guides for this length of rod, 7 is just not enough for a modern guide train. I would align the guide closest to the reel (stripper guide) with the next two or three reduction guides to a choke point on the rod. I usually build with Fuji KTH guides for spinning rods using the concept system but the Microwave system works pretty much the same way. I think it is natural for a builder to evolve using their own guide placement. After enough builds and testing you should get where you have your own system that works for you with out having to use someone else. 9 or 10 guides should work just fine and possibly better than the NFC suggestion.
Tight Lines,
Lance

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.110.---)
Date: September 12, 2018 05:13PM

I believe quite the opposite , i think 9 to 10 guides on a 7 foot rod is excessive especially if the blank isn't extremely moderate . I don't even have have that many guides on my 8 and 9 foot rods that are built with the KR concept , i do have 10 guides on my 12 foot surf rod though, that one is very fast action and a stiff blank . I judge how many guides and what type of guide should be used by the blank type and it's inherent characteristics & reel choice to a slightly lesser extent.


Did i try all three rods with more guides just to see how they would perform , absolutely i did, i always over do it on the testing i mean really over do it lol . When all was said and done it came down to how great the rod handled , how well it cast and how well it distributed stress during the static tests .

I concern myself the most with the reduction train spacing, height and ring size diameters and the choke location and that will in the overwhelming majority of cases result in about 4 total guides , i space my runners approx 5 and a half inches apart out toward the tip top. All our fast action stiff feeling rods, if they were a lot more moderate i would use more runners.

I strongly believe in the " Let the blank decide where to put the runners and how many " philosophy .

Some people like more guides and thats fine also , i personally don't but we're all different .

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: Curtis Hollowell (---.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 12, 2018 06:20PM

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe quite the opposite , i think 9 to 10
> guides on a 7 foot rod is excessive especially if
> the blank isn't extremely moderate . I don't
> even have have that many guides on my 8 and 9 foot
> rods that are built with the KR concept , i do
> have 10 guides on my 12 foot surf rod though, that
> one is very fast action and a stiff blank . I
> judge how many guides and what type of guide
> should be used by the blank type and it's inherent
> characteristics & reel choice to a slightly lesser
> extent.
>
>
> Did i try all three rods with more guides just to
> see how they would perform , absolutely i did, i
> always over do it on the testing i mean really
> over do it lol . When all was said and done it
> came down to how great the rod handled , how well
> it cast and how well it distributed stress during
> the static tests .
>
> I concern myself the most with the reduction train
> spacing, height and ring size diameters and the
> choke location and that will in the overwhelming
> majority of cases result in about 4 total guides ,
> i space my runners approx 5 and a half inches
> apart out toward the tip top. All our fast action
> stiff feeling rods, if they were a lot more
> moderate i would use more runners.
>
> I strongly believe in the " Let the blank decide
> where to put the runners and how many " philosophy
> .
>
> Some people like more guides and thats fine also ,
> i personally don't but we're all different .

Thank you for your reply.

It seems it is personal choice. Being a beginner I don't have the skills to create my own system yet. Why do you think the that NFC suggests fewer guides, than Microwave? Will more guides effect the action of the blank?

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---)
Date: September 12, 2018 06:27PM

Curtis

I'm a true believer in ATC's MicroWave guides. If you go the MicroWave route, the location of the stripper and transition guides relative to the reel and to one another is critical, so use the MicroWave suggested locations as the starting point. Thereafter, add, subtract, or move the runners as indicated by static load load and test casts. To paraphrase Herb C above, the blank will show you where the runners are needed.

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.gtcom.net)
Date: September 12, 2018 06:33PM

I believe the spacing charts for NFC blanks are for the NGC, which utilizesY guides for the reduction train and L guides as runners. The smallest runner they use is a size 6 L guide. If you want to use the microwave or KR guides then you should follow the recommended guide spacing given with the Microwave kit, which is 9 guides, or use the KR GPS, which also recommends 9 guides for a 7’6” Spin rod.
Norm

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: September 12, 2018 07:05PM

I have a 7ft. KR rod sitting in the corner because the owner wants 2 more just like it. It has 10 guides on it. 3 reduction and 7 runners. I didn't put them on there cause I like wrapping guides.

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.110.---)
Date: September 12, 2018 08:54PM

Curtis: " Being a beginner I don't have the skills to create my own system yet. Why do you think the that NFC suggests fewer guides, than Microwave? Will more guides effect the action of the blank"?



I don't believe that Curtis , you most certainly can build your own system being a beginner , the Fuji GPS software makes it possible , it not only tells you where the guides should be located but the exact guide also .

As far as why NFC says to use 7 guides on a 7 foot rod , remember NFC doesn't sell guides so there's no benefit to them recommending more than absolutely necessary . They apparently feel that 7 guides will not only be plenty to support the rod but in their experience thats how many most typically use for having the blank perform well . . All guide manufacturers push the use of more guides than necessary .

Remember the people who are recommending a certain number of guides only know the length not the type , power or action of the blank so they're just guessing and guessing more than necessary is safer than coming up short.


I called CTS and asked about the guide choices & numbers that have proved most popular with a certain surf blank that i wasn't familiar with just for reference , i was told 8 guides , far fewer than i was planning on using as this was a LONG and stiff surf blank . I ended up using two more than what they recommended but only because the test casting and static testing revealed that two more guides would be advantageous. Could i have used more guides , absolutely but after all the testing it proved to have zero advantages except for adding more weight up near the top where you don't want any added weight .


I agree with Don that if you use the Microwave system follow what they recommend .


When you get a chance take a look at the KR GPS below , VERY VERY EASY even for beginners. Don't doubt yourself , if you can wrap Microwaves you can wrap any guide type .

[anglersresource.net]

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: Curtis Hollowell (---.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 12, 2018 10:46PM

This is great input from all of you, I really appreciate it. I will check out the KR GPS for future builds, but being as I have had decent success using the Microwave guides,I will follow the recommendations provided by them.

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.110.---)
Date: September 12, 2018 11:24PM

Excellent , let us know how much you like that NFC blank after you fish it for a bit Curtis .

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Re: Guide spacing
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 13, 2018 04:00PM

From talking with GL, he is a stickler for mass and weight near and at the blank tip end. The less weight the better and more sensitive the finished rod will be. A lot of people feel this way and you will never be able to change their minds nor should you. A lot of us have been building before micro guide sizes were available or concept type systems were even thought of. One guide for every foot of rod length was a standard and the smallest guide ring size was a 6 mm. The new micrio guides can be as much as 2.5 times lighter and the more you use the straighter the line will go through them, enhancing casting and sensitivity. There does come a point where too many guides adds to much weight and mass but with micro guides this is not the case when a reasonable amount is used. The greatest affect of a guide on a blank is the tip top because it is farthest from the fulcrum and a size 6mm ring and frame is a lot more weight than a micro 4mm or even a 5mm. Also the blanks are typically stiffer with faster actions so they will not be affected as much as the older flexy fiberglass or fiberglass carbon fiber mix blanks. This is my reason for 9 or 10 guides on a ML 7'6" NFC blank.

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