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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---)
Date: September 04, 2018 11:16PM

Ah.. See, tom is refering to the reel feel... I hate humidity lol always makes it feel hotter... (Point im making is you have to take multiple factors into an equation.. One part of a problem isnt a solution)

Just thought id add some humor.. Dont mind me.. Im hating work for the next few hours..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2018 11:19PM by Anthony Unger.

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 05, 2018 11:04AM

Right. Subjective. I got it. However, if you ask a bunch of anglers how they would describe a rod with an action angle of 72 degrees, most will ask you what you're talking about, and the rest will answer "fast." There is value in knowing how most rod company ratings correlate to CCS. Even though it's subjective.

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 05, 2018 11:21AM

The trouble is that you can have two blanks both rated as "fast" and one will be faster-slower than the other. Not only are these ratings subjective but the resolution is quite low. Conversely, if you have two blanks with an action of 72AA, both will have the same action.

..........

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: September 05, 2018 11:38AM

If one tried to describe a blank based solely CCS jargon to a fisherman his eyes would glaze over. You have to use subjective term when trying explain things to people who do not know the jargon. So subjective terms have value, and I think Dr Hanneman would agree because he used familiar subjective term to describe the CCS to us.
Norm

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 05, 2018 12:50PM

Right on, Norman. I am a devout advocate of CCS, but as you say. . . .

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 05, 2018 01:59PM

Most fishermen do not understand the subjective terms, either. In fact, many rod builders don't. How many times have you heard a build talk about a "heavy action," etc. About all you can do is really talk to the customer and try to get on the same page they're on. In the meantime, we custom builders have a good system in place behind us.

............

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 05, 2018 03:06PM

I think it would be better described as a tool.. Norm beat me to it.. I was going to say exactly what he said above.. As rod builders yes, its a great tool.. But to the common fisherman, they will have no idea what ypur talking about.. And yes tom, your right.. Builders screw up acrion definition... Heck i did... I cant think of a good example other then repeating norm.. It took me about a week to kind of understand it myself.. And i dont really understand it.. Becouse i dont have enoughe examples to really apply what a 380g feels like compared to a 500, or a 120.. Ive tried to explain it to my wife... Well.. Ive given up trying to explain it to my wife lol she kinda understands medium extra fast... Or other ratings like that..

Ok.. Im willing to bet there isnt 1 person on this site who doesnt fish atleast once every 2 weeks.. For an average fisherman, who goes fishing about 12 times a year.. (Its scary to think thats adverage) the 30$ walmart combo is great.. They dont care what the ccs is.. And probably wouldnt select a rod based on that becouse it would take too long to understand the system... Now i for example, try to hit the water atleast 3 times a week.. Lately its been every day.. I want purpose built.. Walmart doesnt cut it.. And im sure most of you agree, if not all.. Its one of those things... Once youve felt quality.. Theres no going back...

So.. With that in mind.. Big companies taylor to the guy who is going to buy the cheap rod.. And we were all that guy once.. No one spends 600+ on the first rod they buy ever.. You didint even know back then if you were going to really like fishing.. So when you blindly look at a rack of long sticks with stuff wrapped on them, and are given a choice between fast moderate and slow with light medium and heavy.. In diffrent combinations.. You feel more confident in your selection..

Glass blowing companies.. They make intricate, beautiful works of art, wine glasses with amazing frogs climbing the stem, georgous bowls and vases... Do you know what thier number one seller, the thing that keeps them going is? Plain drinking glass.. Nothing special.. You drank out of one the last time you went to the restaurant...

Point im making, its a tool.. The General public doesnt have a need for the system.. Atleast in thier eyes.. Yes, educate rod builders.. I wouldnt be able to build a rod for someone without it anymore.. Should blank manufacturers use it and have it available to builders? Absolutely.. But i would have never built my first rod if i had to select a rod blank off a system i didnt understand..

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 05, 2018 04:57PM

" medium extra fast " I love it , Anthony. Give my regards to your wife. But I don't know what a likely AA is for that.

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: September 05, 2018 06:45PM

So are we trying to find a blank for Anthony?

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 05, 2018 07:52PM

I think he has several candidates.
Norm

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.sub-174-201-4.myvzw.com)
Date: September 05, 2018 08:24PM

It definatly does.. Helps me understand the ccs better.. I love all of your guys info, suggestions, tips, etc. I really dont quite get the IP to power conversion..( relax tom :) i know it IS the power) but when trying to make a rod for someone, and they give you a rod, and say they want it like this.. I can do a ccs test on it, but then what? The ccs has suggestive actions based on AA but nothing suggestive for power..

And yeah, definatly help with finding a blank.. Lol ive been taking notation of all recomendations, when im ready to purchase, ill heavily weigh each option.. With pros and cons.. Probably post 1 million questions, ask for suggestions then.. Im sure you guys can tell by now im starving for info into my new passion.. Just wish i had 2000 blanks laying around..

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 05, 2018 08:36PM

IP is a direct measure of power, the greater the IP the more powerful the rod.
Norm

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.44.102.191.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 05, 2018 09:10PM

Ok, i do have another question.. The ccs states placing the bend 1/3 into the rod blank.. Well, deflecting the blank into the top 1/3.. So how does the blank end up having quite a bend all the way to the foregrip? Making sure i did this correctly, and i think i did.. I read it enough times... Total length, divided by 3.. Deflect the rod, while it is leveled in front of the foregrip the distance of 1/3 of the rod blank.. In this case, being a 6'9" rod, that would be deflecting the rod 27" correct?

I understand this is concidered fully loading a rod, but how accurate is the AA at that point? If ypu have a stiffer backbone, you would end up getting a higher AA would you not? And with that in mind.. Rod power effect Action correct? I know they work together to make a rod what it is.. But action is action, and power is power... Higher the power the stiffer the rod... Crap.. Im starting to confuse myself on this whole topic..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2018 05:39AM by Anthony Unger.

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 06, 2018 05:48AM

Sad part is i spent waaaay to long researching how a rod is constructed.. So i get how material is laid, and how that effects everything... I almost.. Almost... Got the stuff to start making my own blanks... This site stopped that dream in its tracks, i read some threads on the topic, and although i feel i could do it... And have someone willimg to shell out the cash.. You guys put up a solid argument.. I guess i just need a better grasp of how power translates to backbone.. Im at a loss on how to wrap my mind around exactly action and power work together... I mean i get it.. Higher power give a stronger backbone, lower power give a weaker backbone.. Higher the Action Angle the softer the tip, Lower the angle the harder..

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 06, 2018 06:07AM

Alright.. Lets get this thread back on track a bit..

All the blanks you guys suggested.. Are the ratings based on manufacturers specs? Or are they your own findings through the ccs? With a little knowledge i have of blank construction, and my knowledge of how accurate working in production is.. The manufacturers are going to have diffrent specs for each individual rod.. Im guessing a degree in the angle, or fluctuation of 20 or so grams isnt going to be crazy noticeable.. Also.. AA is effected by the tip top.. Different manufacturers of tiptops have diffrent lengths that slip over the blank.. So technically speaking, if i get 2 exact blanks, and shorten the tiptop on a longer tiptop tube, i could get a degree or 2 more.. Atleast thats my understanding..

Its impossible for 2 blanks to be identical.. The process is litterally adding and removing material to get a finished product..

I dont care if the specs are of your findings or the manufacturer for buying purposes.. Just curious...

One last thing.. Ive been trying so hard to replicate this rod that ive completly fell in love with the build i just did with the carbon fiber grips.. I think the fenwick has fallen to second place.. I will do a ccs on that rod as well.. As soon as i modify the jig i have.. My brother didnt listen to me when i asked him to help.. The fenwicks butt is smaller then the eva over carbon fiber butt.. So it doesnt fit..

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 06, 2018 07:14AM

The correct deflection is an amount equal to 1/3rd of the blank's length. Not just "into 1/3rd of the blank." If your rod blank is 84 inches long, then you must deflect it by 28 inches.

...............

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 06, 2018 07:18AM

Ok, just making sure i did the deflection correctly.. Thank you tom
Last thing i want to do is shatter a rod due to loading it wrong.. Boy that would ruin my day lol

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: September 06, 2018 11:03AM

So if you take 2” off the tip of an 84” blank it is now 82” so you will change the CCS numbers, and slow the action.
Norm

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 06, 2018 11:19AM

You misunderstand.. Dont cut the blank.. Tip top guides.. I have 2 with the same i.d. 2 seperate brands.. One is 1/2 other is 3/4 long.. Although by a degree or 2 since your hanging the weight off the tip top eye, it could change the Angle no? Its not relevant to the forum thread.. Im just curious on this.. My mind is racing with possible ways anything could affect a true reading.. The ccs is a very valuble tool, but i can see a lot of variables that can make only knowing the IP and AA limited... But again, that is for another thread

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Re: CCS on the Fenwick
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: September 06, 2018 11:58AM

You are way over thinking this whole thing. CCS data is CCS data. You did CCS calculations on a finished rod, and will certainly have different CCS numbers than if you used a naked blank. The guides and wraps have a weight contribution. If fact, if you have two blanks which are supposedly the same you will probably get slightly different CCS number. There is some blank to blank variability, which is probably one of the reasons manufacturers have not embraced the CCS. Close is close, don’t worry about exactness because it ain’t goin to happen.
Norm

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