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Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 03:48AM

So ive finally found close to the right amount of pennies.. Going to need more im sure, but im close.. I opted to use pennies mainly becouse i need to get out to the tackle shop, otherwise i would have use the suggestion in a previous post about using sinkers.. I figured it cant hurt to ask how you guys and gals go about setting up and executing the CCS..

I dont have a shelf deep, or wide enough to withstand the load placed on the butt from the deflection.. (Or high enough for that matter) Im thinking about mounting posts in my wall that i can slip a rod into.. I figure to level the rod all ill have to do is add something to the upper post to increase the outside diameter.. Basically if looking straight down the shaft of the posts it would be oriented like this... · . And the rod tip would hang out towards the right.. How would, or do you guys secure your blanks/rods? What do you use for weight? What do you suggest for the wire attached to the tip top? Im going to use a piece of lacquer coated machanics wire, bent straight of coarse..

Any tips? It seems fairly straight forward, but again.. Cant hurt to ask



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2018 03:49AM by Anthony Unger.

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 03, 2018 07:53AM

Any sort of of device can be used to the hold the rod butt. Just make sure you do not support the blank any further forward than about 10% of its total length. This will give you comparable results across the board with others who have posted results and against the few companies that use the CCS for their rod blank offerings.

Check the photo page as well - there have been some holding fixtures published there.

...........

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 08:09AM

Rubber bands hold the butts to the rods quite well.

I have a number of plastic bags of 10 pennies, 20 pennies, and a couple of 40. Also have two bags of lead bullets, each weighing 300 grams, if I remember correctly. This speeds the process of deflecting the rod. I have the chart for tip angle with a little line level mounted to it so I can keep it level while observing the indicator piece. Not perfect, but works pretty well considering I don't have the space for the big sheet of pegboard.

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: September 03, 2018 09:22AM

You do not need any thing fancy to get good common cents data. I think you are looking at a 6’ 9” (81””) rod, so you will determine the weight required to deflect that rod 1/3 its length or 27”. On a bench or table, support the rod so 8.1” (10% of length) of the butt is on the bench with the rest or the rod over hanging it. To support the butt, place an open book over the handle of the rod and put a heavy weight on it. Make sure the overhanging rod is level, and measure the distance of the rod from the floor. Now using a bent paper clip attach a light plastic bag to the tip top and start adding pennies to the bag until you deflect the tip 27” from the horizontal. For example, if the rod is 42” off the floor, when the tip is 15” off the floor, record how many cents it took to do this. This is your intrinsic power (IP) in cents, since each cent weighs 2.5 grams you can easily convert to grams. You can measure the angle the of tip by using the protractor given in the CCS article, and this will be the Action Angle (AA), I have a hard time getting a good action angle because you have to make sure the protractor is completely level. That’s all you need to do. Give us the IP and AA and maybe we can give you some info on a blank that might match. My guess is that the Ip will be between 150-200 cents with an AA in the 70s. Hope this helps.
Norm

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: September 03, 2018 10:04AM

To support the rod, I use a hand wrapper that I built. It has dowels mounted in the support stands that stick out and allow me to wrap Velcro rod wraps around the butt to secure it. Both of the support stands slide, so I just slide the other stand to where I need it. The wrapper's base is 48" long, and with the stands at one end, I don't need to add any weight to hold it down. I usually set the wrapper on the kitchen counter.

As I said in a previous post, I use bullet weights, as well as some other assorted fishing weights, as the weight to deflect the blank. I place those in a plastic bag that I hang from the tip top with a bent paper clip. While placing them in the bag I use a piece of paper and record how many of each I am placing in.

For the pointer wire, I use a piece of wire that I cut off a R bend spinnerbait wire form. As far as holding and supporting the action angle chart .... I have it taped to piece of eighth inch plexiglass that I just hold in place. I know it's not the most precise way of doing it, but I have a pretty good eye so that makes my measurements close enough for what I need.

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: September 03, 2018 10:24AM

When using weights other than cents, make sure you have an accurate scale to weigh the bag afterwards. The reason that cents are used is because they weigh exactly 2.5 grams each so you do not need a scale. Anything that supports your rod at the 10% point is fine. May need to shim the rod a little to get it level.
Norm

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 10:52AM

David, i love when i get one of those.. "Oh yeah..." Moments.. Using a piece of spinner R wire would be easier, straighter, and lighter then what i have planned.. And i have a whole lot of it to.. Lol as for using sinkers, i want to get a weight setup set, so i dont end up "dipping in" one day for a fishing outing one day.. Im a machinist, and i make gears that can take upwards of 3-4 days per cut.. Haveing to reset the outside diameter micrometers between cuts always gives a reading .001 high or low at the very least.. You never can seen to set the thing up exactly the same as the first time no matter how hard you try.. And we usually have a tolerance of around .001- .005 of an inch... The point im getting at here is my life basically revolves around fairly extreme accuracy.. It drives me crazy lol.. So i want to get a setup that i can use more or less permanently, so my measurments can be as true today as they were 2 months ago.. (I know thats a little excessive, but we are only as good as the information given)

Norm, you are correct on this being for my 6'9" im going to go ahead and measure alot of my rods right away though.. Im very curious to see how the different brands, materials, and styles match up to what they have advertised... And your posts always help, you are a very knowledgeable person :)

Michael, im fairly limited to space myself, ive kinda been trying to figure out the best way to make sure everything stays level too, i own a house from the 1800's so level is a relative term here lol i like the idea of a line level, thanks

Tom, thanks for the 10% suggestion, i think i overlooked that somehow.. I planned to keep the reel seat at the forward holding point... I might have to move that back on a few rods.. I thought i read somewhere (ive been reading nonstop since i joined the forum, so who knows where i picked this up) that you could support as far as the first guide if necessary.. I guess i assumed, as the deflection is only 1/3 of the rod, that supporting to the first guide wouldnt necessarily effect your results, but standardizing is a good thing.. And i guess in hindsight ultimately shortening your overall lengrh by placing your forward fulcrum point that high up would effectively alter your results.. Thank you again

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 10:55AM

A nickle is 5 grams as well, so for bulking up i guess it couldnt hurt to rough your way up, then use pennies to fine tune...

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 11:03AM

You guys do know that not all pennies are 2.5 grams, right? From 1983 they are 2.5 grams. Before that they were 3.1, quite a difference, so don't ignore it.

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 11:23AM

I thought it standardized to 2.5 grams after 1996, thats why its taking me over a week to gather enough to do this lol.. Its amazing when you grab a handfull how many are from before 96'

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 03, 2018 11:39AM

Here's another tip to speed things up - get some very small, micro ziplock bags (yes they make them) and pre-count and seal some containing 20, 10 and 5 pennies. Write on the outside of the bag how many it contains. Then you can load up the rod very quickly and don't need to count individual pennies, outside of the last few you add (less than 5). You just remove the bags and quickly count the numbers on the outside/s of the bag/s

...........

The rod blank just forward of the butt support should be leveled. Any tip droop is a function of the power/stiffness to weight and therefore should not be leveled.

...............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2018 12:20PM by Tom Kirkman.

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 01:43PM

Hello Anthony.

If you like "Gadgets", MudHole has a "CRB Deflection tool with the Wall mounted deflection chart" on sale for $59.93.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

Bridgeton, NC.

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: September 03, 2018 02:07PM

Anthony, I totally understand the need for precision that you have. Hopefully it's not too bad, because if it is, you'll start thinking about the need to level the center line of the blank, and not the blank's surface, to be truly accurate <wink>

I did my first CCS measurements for the same reason as you. I had a favorite factory rod that I wanted to match. ( I was as precise as I could be that first time, although I didn't worry about leveling the rod's center line lol) I was lucky enough that the manufacturer of the blank I wanted to use (Pac Bay) had published CCS numbers for their blanks. If you can find a manufacturer that supplies CCS numbers for their blanks, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how close the rod you build will feel compared to the rod you're trying to match. That is if you can find a blank with numbers that are somewhat close.

As for trying to figure a way to level or plumb the AA chart. You could use a square and draw a line extending down from the base line (centered of course) and hang your bag of pennies from a string tied to the rod tip. More or less making a plumb bob. Hold the rod tip at the proper position and then match the downward line you drew on the chart, with the string holding the bag.

Anyhow .... good luck in your quest. And please post the numbers you come up with. With the specs you posted for that Fenwick rod I'm going to up Norman's numbers a bit and guess between $2.50 - $3.00 worth of pennies

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 03, 2018 02:32PM

I acually having trouble finding a place to put the rod.. Why do they always have to be so long lol.. I have shelves, but no way to support it.. My desks are too short, and my wife would kill me if i used the coutertop lol.. Im probably going to make a rig up out of wood, possibly later today or Tommorrow sometime..

Ive seen them robert, but i dont have the wallspace.... Trust me, id love one lol

Never fear though, i will definatly post the numbers as soon as i can

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 04, 2018 01:42PM

Do you have a garage with concrete floor and a vise? If so send me an email and I'll show you my rig which works very well, doesn't use a big sheet of pegboard, easy up easy down when not needed. It is not as easy to use as the "official" big rig, but almost.

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: September 04, 2018 02:21PM

I dont unfortunatly.. But i got something rigged up that works fairly well... Atleast enough to do that rod.. The stats on that rod are in a new message... "CCS on the Fenwick"

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Re: Common cents system, how do you set up?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: September 04, 2018 06:57PM

My St. Croix 3S70MLF has the same exact power, but a faster tip, 75 degrees..

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