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Guide layout questions
Posted by: Gary Schembs (---)
Date: August 30, 2018 05:55PM

I’m building a 6’10” shakey head spinning rod on Rainshadow Eternity blank

I ordered the Fuji KLH kit for a 7’ rod

My question is when I mount my reel Abu Garcia Rocket 30 and continue the axis all the way till it hits the blank do I line the first three guides up in the center or on the bottom of the Inside diameter?

My thought was to do this then go with the recommendations from manufacturer and compare it with 7’ Dobyns I have as well.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Gary

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: August 30, 2018 07:26PM

The top of the guide, did you read the article in the library here?

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Gary Schembs (---)
Date: August 30, 2018 07:30PM

I didn’t but I will look for it.
Thanks

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Gary Schembs (---)
Date: August 30, 2018 07:54PM

I found it. Thanks

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: August 30, 2018 08:27PM

I don't like the mudhole kits for KL-H guides. They do a terrible job of putting togethe a KL-H guide kit based on reel and line size. Rod length has nothing to do with the size guides needed for the reduction train. For your size 30 reel you would be better off with a reduction train consisting of KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M followed by size 5 KB/KT runners. The stripper would be placed 20" in front of the reel spool and the choke guide (KB5 runner) 21" in front of the stripper. Progressively place the other two reduction guides between the stripper and choke guide. Place the remainder of the runners progressively from the tiptop to the choke guide. I usually place the first runner about 3.5 to 4" (9-10 cm) from the tiptop. I would use 9 guides total for this rod, which is one or two more runners than recommended by the Fuji KR GPS. The Fuji KR GPS is located on the Angler's Resource site [anglersresource.net] . This KRGPS is a very good resource for figuring out KR guide placement.
Norm

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.76.---)
Date: August 30, 2018 10:14PM

I was about to purchase the KL-H guide set at Mudhole but i asked about it on this forum beforehand and realized the kits were not matched correctly . I agree with Norm about using the KRGPS software it's extremely accurate and tells you what size guides and their recommended location. I disagree about using 9 guides on a rod thats just shy of 7 feet however .


On my inshore 9 foot rod i have a total of 10 guides total + the tip top , runners are spaced on average 5 1/2 inches apart & i use a Stradic FK 5000 , now on my 8 foot inshore rod i have a total of 9 guides + the tip top , runners are spaced about 5" inches apart , i use a Stradic FK 4000 on that one . Great stress distribution throughout and both cast like missiles.


Everybody is different and has different preferences , i would not judge the rod you're building now by looking how your Dobyns is laid out .

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 31, 2018 09:08AM

I was just looking at the KL-H guide sets from Mudhole and find the setup quite nice and work very well for the rods that I build.

[www.mudhole.com]

In particular, I like the setup for the guides since I almost always go with a guide setup that is based more on a universal reel to be used on a rod - rather than a specific reel.

I know that there are a lot of builders that tailor a given rod to a given reel. However, I tend to go with the idea that a god rod may last for a very long time. That rod may go through several generations of different type and style reels.
As a result, I tend to build a rod that will work very well with a 1000 sized reel just as well as a 4000 sized reel. Depending on the day and fish that I am targeting, I may use two or three different reels on a given rod over the course of a day or a week of fishing.

So, after looking at the guide size and selection for the various setups by Mudhole, I would go with the setups as delivered or make a minor change here or there.

The concept of this forum is "custom rod building". Certainly everyone is entitled and goes with a building method and style that works well for them and their clients.

That is the wonderful thing about this vocation - a million different builders can have a million different ideas and methods of building a rod - and at the end of the day, every one of those million builds of rod, using different materials, blanks, guides, lines and reels all catch fish very well and all make the builder happy with the job completed on the rod, and the user of the rod for a fine fishing rod that catches the fish that they are targeting for the day.

A rod may be long, short, soft, heavy, light power, extra heavy power or somewhere in between. The guides may be short tall, gold, silver black, large, small, tiny, and have rings in them or be wonderful guides without rings and every single rod catches a fish when asked.

Enjoy the vocation, the building, the design of a great rod, and the supply of our vendors in supplying such quality products for your vocation.

Be safe

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: August 31, 2018 09:55AM

If you are going to do a KR concept rod then do it right! The KR concept is a microguide braid concept, and for most freshwater rods a KL25H stripper based reduction train is just too large. Like putting a size 40 stripper on a walleve rod, it will work but is totally unnecessary. A size 25 stripper would be used for large reels with heavy braid or mono. The Mudhole KLH kits are not put together by Fuji and do not follow the KR concept, they are trying to put together a one size fits all concept. Having KLH guide kits based on rod length is not the way it’s done. I think they are doing a disservice to the KR concept. They can sell anything they want but I will never buy them.
Norm

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---)
Date: August 31, 2018 02:31PM

I like Norman's explanation and his set up based on the Concept system is above average. Roger does make a valid point about a wider range of spinning reel sizes. I know that I have gone through about 4 different reels with the same concept built rod but I have been staying with 1000 to 2500 sized reels with it. To me 9 guides on a 7 foot blank is good with the concept system. With a larger diameter stripper guide you can place it closer to the reel but you will have t0 tweak the other guide heights, sizes and position to make it fit the correct set up. None of this stuff is written in stone so experiment and test to see what works best for you. The only mistake you are going to make is not learning from the mistakes you do make.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2018 02:39PM by Lance Schreckenbach.

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: August 31, 2018 03:45PM

Just looked at the Mudhole sets. They don't make sense to me, and don't even agree with the Fuji sets in their catalog. Do it like Norm. Size 16 strippers will work for some lines, but a 20 will work with the same lines and more. A concession to Roger's way of thinking. :-)

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.76.---)
Date: August 31, 2018 04:24PM

Just typed in Gary's rod length in the Fuji GPS with all reel sizes from 1000 size up to 5000 size with all the different braid sizes from 6 to 10 pound up to 20 to 30 pound and in every instance Fuji recommended's either the 20 KL-H to the 16 KL-H as strippers with a three guide reduction train and a total of 4 reduction guides .



I really didn't remember what Fuji recommended as the total number of runners because i was only interested in Fuji's calculations for the stripper and other two reduction guides but after just typing in the info i was pleased to find out that my builds show to be right in line with Fuji's recommendations .

Moral of the story is whether you choose a 1000 size reel or 5000 size reel and 6-10 pound braid or 20 -30 pound braid Fuji's recommendations for the layout vary very very little the only real difference is how many runners you choose to go based on rod length . I like only enough to get the job done but some like more and thats OK also.

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 31, 2018 07:09PM

One reason to use a larger stripper guide is for the folks who use 20-40 lb mono. It is stiff and needs the larger guide to tame down the loops.

There are some applications where this is still the line to use for the particular type of fishing.

Be safe

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: August 31, 2018 08:44PM

If one is going to use heavy mono they should not be using the KR concept, which was designed for using microguides with braided line.

Norm

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.76.---)
Date: August 31, 2018 08:45PM

If you're using 20 -40 pound mono i would be shocked if anybody is going to choose a KR setup over other types of layout methods but if thats the case than you would be choosing a far larger diameter stripper so good point there Roger. Gary's reel holds 225 yards of 6 pound mono and 140 yards of 10 pound mono so that won't apply here but whenever somebody chooses to use 20-30 pound mono on a spinner you're definitely looking at a 30 mm minimum but more likely a 40 mm - 50 mm size stripper to try and tame down those large diameter coils of mono .

Line type and diameter are a HUGE factor in choosing the right type and sizes of guides and one of the first questions that should be asked.

Just my opinion of course



Noticed Norm posted seconds before i did , didn't see his post before mine appeared lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2018 08:50PM by herb canter.

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Re: Guide layout questions
Posted by: Gary Schembs (---)
Date: September 01, 2018 04:25AM

Thanks for all the great info and I will check out that anglers resource as well.

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