All,
I am building my first 2 rods ever. 1st is a CRB 50-100lb class rod and a black hole cape cod special 450g rod. I have been practicing on the CRB and then doing the Black Hole blank. I am now at the point of guide placement, which I want to be acid wrapped. I don't have a clue how to find the correct guide placement. Any help would be appreciated.

Also of note, the CRB is a moderate fast blank 5'8" and the Black Hole is parabolic, cut down to 5'2".

How many guides?

Should the acid wrap part be 3 guides at 60 degrees offset, or 4 guides at 45 degrees offset?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2018 06:30PM by Paul Wray.

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The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Hey Matthew, thanks for the reply, but I don't see anything there. Where you trying to post a picture or Web link maybe?

probably pulled the link because it mentioned the co that wasn't a site sponsor sorry about that if you want E mail me

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Nobody pulled a link. Any time a post is edited the forum software will make note of it (for instance - see bottom of this post).

However, per the rules you aren't supposed to post direct links to non-sponsors.

.............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2018 04:16PM by Tom Kirkman.

Hello Paul.

There were several articles on "Acid Wrapping" or "Spiral Wrapping", in RodMaker Magazine, my favorite on heavy rods especially is the "Simple Spiral", but to me the most informative is "Spiral Wrapping, Making The Transition" because it explains all the methods (and there have been a bunch), that being said here is a list of articles on the subject (not in any particular order).

1. "Spiral Guide Placement" Volume-15, Issue-6, Page-10 By Joy Dunlap.

2. "Spiral Wrap For Casting Rods" V-3, I-5, pg.-24 By Ralph O'Quinn.

3. "Spiral Wrapping, Making The Transition" V-6, I-5, pg.-24 By Tom Kirkman.

4. "Spiral, A Different Way To Do It" V-18, I-2, pg.-30 By Chris Carrowell.

5. "Simple Spiral" V-8, I-2, pg.-16 By Willaim "Bill" Colby.

If you don't have any of these magazines you can go to "RodMaker Magazine" on the left and either back order the one or ones you want or there are 2 CD's that have all the issues from2-9 & 10-12.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Paul Wray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All,
> I am building my first 2 rods ever. 1st is a CRB
> 50-100lb class rod and a black hole cape cod
> special 450g rod. I have been practicing on the
> CRB and then doing the Black Hole blank. I am now
> at the point of guide placement, which I want to
> be acid wrapped. I don't have a clue how to find
> the correct guide placement. Any help would be
> appreciated.
>
> Also of note, the CRB is a moderate fast blank
> 5'8" and the Black Hole is parabolic, cut down to
> 5'2".
>
> How many guides?
>
> Should the acid wrap part be 3 guides at 60
> degrees offset, or 4 guides at 45 degrees offset?

I have built a number of the 450g blanks but have never cut them. I prefer to use them full length which is 5'8". Not sure what you mean by the 60 degree offset??? Please note that since this blank is very parabolic, even through the handles, it is recommended that you use the graphite reel seats.
Based upon the top of the blank being at 360 degrees and the bottom of the blank being at 180 degrees for reference, my guide placements are at 337, 279, 187, 180, 180, and 180. My guides transition to the left.

Thanks Mel.

I was asking do you use 60 degree offsets, such as eyes are at 0, 60, 120, and 180 degrees, or should I use 45 degree offsets, such that the eyes are at 0, 45, 90, 135, 180.

I have a graphite seat already. Good recommendation though.

What is your eye spacing on this rod?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2018 01:28AM by Paul Wray.

Ok, I understand now what you are saying and my answer is that I do not use any set formula such as equal spacing as each blank is different. You have to put your guides on and do your stress test to try to get a good straight line path and equal distribution of load on each guide. I will give you my spacing that I use but my measurements that I have recorded are based on my selection of a full length build (5'8") and my selection of handle dimensions. Perhaps you can use these as a starting point . First of all, my handle from butt to top of foregrip is constructed as follows. Aftco gimble, Butt grip of 11", Fuji DPS22, foregrip of 11.25". My guide spacings are measured from the top of the foregrip and then moving towards the tip.
Size Spacing Degrees
20 6.25" 337
16 13.25" 279
12 20" 187
12 26.25" 180
10 31.25" 180
10 35.25 180
HBSG guides and HBST tip
The degrees that I use as measurement is based upon a 360 degree circle protractor. The way that I set it up on my machine gives me these degrees since I spiral going to the left. So I suppose based on the way you measure, the 337 can be interpreted as 23 degrees and the 279 can be 81 degrees and so forth.The rod seat would be at 0 degrees. I also build the 250gr, 150 gr and the 80 gr and they all have slightly different configurations.

Mel Shimizu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I understand now what you are saying and my
> answer is that I do not use any set formula such
> as equal spacing as each blank is different. You
> have to put your guides on and do your stress test
> to try to get a good straight line path and equal
> distribution of load on each guide.


Thank Mel for the reply. Great information. I think you nailed exactly what I was asking for with the quote above. Each rod is different and each setup makes them even more different. What I was trying to ask, is how do you do a load/stress test? Like, specifically, is there a video that shows you how to set up? do you just tape the eyes in a spot where you think they will go, then bend tip, and look at the line flow?

Even more so, what specifically am I looking for to say, "Yep, that looks good", or "No, I have to change this"? Am I looking for any place where the line goes through eye, and makes a turn above XXX degrees? Am I looking for any place that line will touch blank, etc? What is it, that you look for, to know if you need to move a certain eye, up or down the blank? What makes you decide that a particular rod needs 4 eyes to complete the 180 twist, instead of 3, or 5? What I really need is a salty rod builder that lives next door to show me the ins and outs of what to look for. Is there literature on this, illustrations, maybe a youtube video or something?

I have a good starting point, shown in the attached photo. [www.rodbuilding.org] In this build they are saying 729mm (28.7") from butt end to tip of fore grip. This is for standup though, and I am making more of a boat rod, so my butt to fore grip will be about 25", so almost 4 inches shorter. Can I just space those 4 inches out among the eyes, or should I add another eye, and if I add another eye, where should it go, how does that effect the spacing?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2018 05:42PM by Paul Wray.

Hello Paul.

There are some video's you can watch on "YouTube".

Enter the phrase "Anglers Envy-Rod building".

Tom has a bunch of CD's which are useful in the RodMaker Magazine section to the left.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Paul Wray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mel Shimizu Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ok, I understand now what you are saying and my
> > answer is that I do not use any set formula
> such
> > as equal spacing as each blank is different.
> You
> > have to put your guides on and do your stress
> test
> > to try to get a good straight line path and
> equal
> > distribution of load on each guide.
>
>
> Thank Mel for the reply. Great information. I
> think you nailed exactly what I was asking for
> with the quote above. Each rod is different and
> each setup makes them even more different. What I
> was trying to ask, is how do you do a load/stress
> test? Like, specifically, is there a video that
> shows you how to set up? do you just tape the eyes
> in a spot where you think they will go, then bend
> tip, and look at the line flow?
>
> Even more so, what specifically am I looking for
> to say, "Yep, that looks good", or "No, I have to
> change this"? Am I looking for any place where the
> line goes through eye, and makes a turn above XXX
> degrees? Am I looking for any place that line will
> touch blank, etc? What is it, that you look for,
> to know if you need to move a certain eye, up or
> down the blank? What makes you decide that a
> particular rod needs 4 eyes to complete the 180
> twist, instead of 3, or 5? What I really need is a
> salty rod builder that lives next door to show me
> the ins and outs of what to look for. Is there
> literature on this, illustrations, maybe a youtube
> video or something?
>
> I have a good starting point, shown in the
> attached photo.
> [www.rodbuilding.org]
> ium/Black_Hole_Cape_Cod_Special_52B_450g_.JPG In
> this build they are saying 729mm (28.7") from
> butt end to tip of fore grip. This is for standup
> though, and I am making more of a boat rod, so my
> butt to fore grip will be about 25", so almost 4
> inches shorter. Can I just space those 4 inches
> out among the eyes, or should I add another eye,
> and if I add another eye, where should it go, how
> does that effect the spacing?

Your stress test will give you the answers to your questions. Here is the way that I do it. I have a rod tube made of pvc that is held at a 45 degree angle by wood braces. I clamp this to my work bench. I place my guides using masking tape where I think that they should be. I place mount my reel and string my line through the guides held by tape. I tie on a small 2-4 oz sinker to the line to keep slight tension on the line. I then hold the tip with my fingers and pull down ( not on the sinker). This will give you a good look at how the line will look when the rod is stressed and the guides will not move as there is no pressure on the line.