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Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Andrei Zabet (---.rdsnet.ro)
Date: August 27, 2018 04:22AM

Hello,

I bought a discontinued Sage Method 1090-4 rod blank (10 wt. 9 feet) and the recommended guide setup from Sage is like this: 20J / 12J / 5 / 4 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3. I bought some REC recoil RSNX double foot snakes as recommended by Sage, but I also added some extra, just in case.

It would be ok to alter the guides setup with slightly larger RSNX like in this setup: 20J / 12J / 6 / 5 / 4 / 4 / 3 / 3 / 3? Or go with 4 size all the way up? Sage website recommends the above setup, but they're using hard chrome guides, which tend to be heavier than the recoils, I think (not sure of that).

Rod will be used in both FW and SW but mostly SW.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Andrei

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 27, 2018 08:00AM

You don't need all those different sizes. Try 20 - 12 - and 3's on out.

.........

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: chris adams (---.se.biz.rr.com)
Date: August 27, 2018 09:27AM

I can not think of a reason you need to alter the first option but as Tom said you don't really need all those sizes so if I was to change anything, it would not be adding more larger guides.

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: August 27, 2018 10:28AM

I have been making all of mine in the last few years as Tom recommends and I think they cast better. It is kind of like the Fuji KR concept but you are applying it to a fly rod guide train. With double foot snakes 10 total guides plus a tip top should be sufficient. I believe it will work better than 9. I think mass producing rod manufacturers base a lot of emphasis on aesthetics, so something that may perform slightly better will be overlooked. You are also correct about the guide weight, the chrome plated guides are heavier than the RECs. You are going in the right direction.

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 27, 2018 11:18AM

Sage has a long record for building high quality fly rods. I can't think of any reason to ignore their recommended guide placement?

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: August 27, 2018 02:15PM

A lot of rod builders will just recommended manufacturers guide sizes and placements not wanting to change anything because it has been tested and proven to be acceptable. Sage does do a lot of testing before deciding on guide placement but they somewhat limit themselves to cost. Sometimes to improve the performance of a particular blank you have to be more unconventional. I have found that a 9' 4pc fly rod with a 20mm guide (Stripper) being place about 2" from the ferrule end will cast a little better than the typical stripper placement farther away from the reel. You can always tape or tie wrap the guides to the blank to see how it will work before you commit to something.

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Andrei Zabet (---.residential.rdsnet.ro)
Date: August 27, 2018 02:30PM

Thank you, I was wondering if there would be any gains from such a change. I asked because I was more concerned about the tangles and knots clearing out the guides when fish are getting into the backing. This what the reason for asking about #4 snakes. The other reason was for maximum distance by shooting line... but I cannot see any gains or loses without testing different setups.

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 27, 2018 02:37PM

If the connections and/or knots will make it through a #3, they'll make it through a #4.

If you actually set up the guides per their recommendations and then do it the way I mentioned, you'll see that moving right to the #3's actually creates a straighter line path. Using a lot of different sizes is done for the human eye - not the fly line. Less weight, too, of course, although any weight difference would be very, very minute.

.........

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Andrei Zabet (---.rdsnet.ro)
Date: August 28, 2018 04:14AM

Thank you, that makes sense to my lack of rod building skills and experience. One more thing: why the jump from a #20 stripping guide to a #12 one? To better channel the line to the smaller guides, perhaps?

I wonder if there would be any significant weight added/performance lost for going with this: 20J / 12J / 6 / 5 / 4 / 4 / 4 / 4 / 4... the #3 sizes feel a little bit too small for a 10 wt. But then again, I'm not a rod builder.

Sorry for all these question marks but I will send the components to a rod builder in another town, who hasn't built too many fly rods so far (mostly spinning and casting works). Also, he is not a fly angler, so he won't be able to test cast the rod in various phases of the project. It is what it is... we had a great rod builder in our city bud sadly, he passed away in a boat accident.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2018 04:43AM by Andrei Zabet.

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 28, 2018 07:56AM

There would be some weight difference, but it would be slight. But I would not rule out size 3's unless you are sure that any loop to loop or leader to line connections will not easily pass through them.

...............

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Andrei Zabet (---.rdsnet.ro)
Date: August 28, 2018 10:07AM

OK, thank you for all of your thoughts. Looks like I'll be stuck with the components (ordered from France). Today I have received the Method blank 1090-4 from MudHole and the ferrule of the tip section has a big crack in it. This blank at closeout costed me $457.93 with shipping included and custom taxes ($76.00).

I was about to order the remaining of the #4 size recoil snake guides... I must put everything on hold until I can get either a full refund or a replacement blank from MudHole. I am so @#$%& off right now words cannot describe it.

The damage didn't happen in transit, as the PVC tube arrived sealed from the sender, they did not open it in the customs. So it must have been overlooked or not even inspected by someone at MudHole prior to shipping. The guides and all the components that cost a lot - 192.5 euro or $225.7. Fuji Torzite guides, recoil rsnx guides, full wells carbon handle and butt cap etc.

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 29, 2018 07:41PM

Lefty recommended forming an "O.K." sign with the ends of the thumb and forefinger on the stripping hand, passing the running fly line through this opening, and using this aperture as the "taming guide". This arrangement certainly provides the lightest gathering [taming] guide.

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Re: Guide setup change on a Method blank
Posted by: Andrei Zabet (---.rdsnet.ro)
Date: August 31, 2018 10:10AM

I've seen this with others, too. When fishing from boat, I'm using a line basket from a Danish manufacturer, and that helps a bunch with line management and shooting it - this way I can consistently cast the whole fly line 2 out of 3 casts.

Now I'm waiting for the replacement blank and this will set me back a lot of time.

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