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Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---)
Date: August 20, 2018 06:17PM

Ok, so i have 2 questions acually.. I understand what rod action and rod power mean, but im open for suggestions..

My last build was a 7' medium power ultra light action.. I based the build off my favorite rod, a Fenwick EliteTech Smallmouth Elite, 6'9" medium ultra light..

The blank i used was a graphite mtx.. But i have to say its nothing like my Fenwick, i know diffrent makers have diffrent specs on hows rods respond, with my fenwick, its super sensitive, cast exellent, and when i have a fish in fight they feel like monsters.. Thats exactly what i was looking for.. Instead it ended up being a rod 3x more sensitive, and theres basically no resistance when fighting... Dont get me wrong, im very happy with the build.. And i love the rod.. But...

What would be a better action/power combo to achieve the same sensitivity and still make the fish feel like a monster?

The other question, my brother misses fish constantly dude to setting the hook like Jeremy Wade.. Would a slow power be better to reduce his violent hooksets? Hes like me in needing the sensitivity though...

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 20, 2018 06:36PM

"Ultra Light" is power, not action. Power is just that - power or stiffness. Action is where the rod intially flexes.

If you want the fish to feel as if they're fighting harder and/or are larger, the key is to go with a longer blank. A faster action helps, too, because the rod doesn't bend as deep into the butt and therefore the effective length is greater.

This is overkill, but to make the point - use a 20 foot rod to catch those same fish and they will feel like "monsters."

..........

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: August 20, 2018 07:19PM

I am assuming you are talking about a spinning rod because the only Fenwick 6’9” Rods I found were spin rods. Fenwick lists the elite tech 6’9” bass Spin rod as having a medium power, with a moderate fast action. They also have an elite tech 6’9” walleye Spin rod listed as having medium light power and extra fast action. They also have two elite tech 6’9” river runner spin rods one listed as ultra light power and fast action and the other listed as light power with a fast action. As Tom mentioned there is no such thing as a medium power ultralight action. We need to know which rod you are trying to copy. Never heard of an mtx blank.
Norm

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 20, 2018 09:37PM

[www.google.com]


[www.google.com]

If you study the afore listed pictures and graphs, you will see graphs of rod action - extra fast, fast, moderate, and slow.

then, you will see graphs of rod power - untra light, light, medium light, medium, heavy and extra heavy.

So, you can combine any action with any power.

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.direcway.com)
Date: August 20, 2018 11:18PM

I should have waited to post that message.. Im at work, and wrote that in 10 min. Lol ill pull the info off the rod im trying to copy.. I understand action vs. Power.. Just said it backwards in a rush.. My fault.. And yes it is definatly a spin rod.. Bass... The rod i have won best rod of 2017 in some contest.. Its on fenwicks site.. And its the mhx blanks.. Wow i seriously botched that original post.. Sorry guys



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2018 11:22PM by Anthony Unger.

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: August 21, 2018 02:53AM

Ok.. The rod i based the build off is a Fenwick EliteTech Smallmouth model number ESMS692M-XF 6'9" medium... I have a pfluger president reel on it, not sure on exact size.. Places the balance about 3 1/2" infront of the reel seat.. It has 7 guides not including the tip top in a standard conical formation...

The blank i used is a 7' MHX World Class Blank Series fast action medium power, model number P843-2 (if you wish to look it up, its in the in shore section) i have a microwave guide line control system installed, with 9 guides not including the tip top, placed in static guide formation.. Im using the same reel, with the balance point about 1/2" in front of the reel seat...

I assumed going with a fast action puting the bend further down the rod would make the fight feel a bit more heavy.. But the blank bends like an quite a bit more like an extra fast.. Also figured adding an additional 3" to the length would help with that..

I understand this was my second rod, and it a 50/50 on which i prefer... The fenwich is a great rod, but the MHX is 10x more sensitive, lighter, cast about the same..

Could it be becouse of the guide systems? Or balance point? I know being a xf medium vs a fast medium makes a huge diffrence, but i wouldnt figure it to be that extreme.. On the smallmouth elite, a bluegill feels like a 12" trout.. On the MHX im not sure theres acually a fish on lol.. Thats a bit extreme.. But you get the point.. Finding a 6'9" blank. 6-12lb to match the fenwick is difficult to find.. Atleast for me.. Hence the question of a suggestion..

As for the other question, my brother has a habit of setting the hook aggressively... He gets the tap, tap, TAP, and rips back, pulling the bait right out of the fishs mouth.. Ive tried to get him to set the hook like i do.. Calmly reel all the slack in, tightening the line, they basically set the hook for me.. But he does what he does... Would making a slow power rod counter his force a bit? Ive never seen nor held a slow action rod before.. Every for i own is either a ultralight or medium. He is like me, completly obsessed with hyper sensitivity..

As for a longer rod making a minnow feel like a Mack truck, my grandfather used to give us a 12' crappie rod, or an old fly rod rigged up with a spin reel.. Good times in the bluegill pond lol.. So i Definatly understand the longer the rod, the bigger the fish feel... I own a 10' 4pc. 8wt, and a 7'6" 2pc 4-5wt fly rod, dont use the 10'er often as i never really get out in big enough water to play with it.. but love the 7'6"..

I guess i should add the rods in question are used on Lehigh River, small surrounding streams, canal for cats and eels.. I change my rig to fit the application for the most part.. We both use 6lb test mono.. So never really getting any significant size fish, average size are about 14-24 trout, smallmouth are usually no bigger then 13", cats vary, but dont get much bigger the 14".. Eels however are usually 2-3'..so to sum that up, light tackle, light rods..

My goal is to make every rod better then the last... Any suggestions?

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: August 21, 2018 02:53AM

I do set my goals high though.. And ive had thar fenwick longer then i thought.. This is the article i mentioned about the elitetech winning an award...

[www.fenwickfishing.com]

Read if you wish..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2018 03:07AM by Anthony Unger.

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 21, 2018 07:47AM

Anthony,
I see that the blank that you used for your build was a "popping rod" blank. [www.mudhole.com]

This type blank is really a nice blank and one of my go to blanks, when I want to use live bait. With a really soft tip, the blank really makes a wonderful rod for long casts, pitching live bait without having to worry about it being tossed off.
But, the flip side of the coin, is that with the very soft tip the fisherman is somewhat isolated from the fish - hence - y our feeling of isolation when brining the fish to the net.

----------------
Since you apparently want a 2-piece blank, you might consider one of the Rainshadow Revelation blanks: [www.rainshadowrodblanks.com]

In particular the
Revs68ml-2sb or the
Revs72ml-2sp

The difference between the two blanks is the length. One is 6'8" and the other one is 7'2".
Both of these blanks are tailored specifically for the walleye and small mouth bass market.

In a one piece blank
The revelation blank:

REVS68MXF Satin Black 6'8" 1 6-14lb. 3/16-1/2oz 0.455 4.5 XF M 1.9oz. All purpose Bass

-----------------
If you wish to go to a more expensive, and a bit more sensitive blank:

The Immortal blank:
IMMS68ML Titanium Chrome 6'8" 1 6-12lb. 1/8-3/8oz. 0.450 4.5 F ML 1.6oz. Finesse/Tubes/Small Crankbait & stick baits & spy baits

With any of the afore mentioned blanks, you should be getting the response from the rod and blank that you mentioned earlier.

Best of luck

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 21, 2018 08:30AM

Instead of going to the trouble and expense of changing rods he could change hooks - go to circle hooks. No need to set the hook, just crank them in.

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Dan Ertz (---.dsl.airstreamcomm.net)
Date: August 21, 2018 09:41AM

"Power" ratings are different with every manufacturer. An M from one, is a ML with another, and is a MH with a third. The Fenwick is probably more toward a ML than your MHX blank and therefore the fish give a better fight. A medium light would pair up better with the 6lb mono you said you use and will give you a better fight. When matching a rod to the line you intend to use, it's often better to go with a rod where that line is listed more toward the middle of the suggested range than one extreme or the other. With a rod rated for 6-12 lb. line, 8 to 10 lb. line are probably the prime choices, with 6 and 12 being "okay."

With your brother, try to get him to wait to set the hook until he can feel the fish on the line, not just "taps."

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: August 21, 2018 11:11AM

Sounds like you want a light to medium light rod with a fast or moderate fast action. Hard to find two piece rods but the 6’8” Revelation blanks suggested by Roger is a good choice. Try using a light braid it has no stretch, and thus will increase sensitivity and help with hooksets. In my opinion, light mono is like using a rubber band.
Norm

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: August 21, 2018 12:34PM

The only problem with using braid is im basically fishing in razor blades when on the river, very sharp rocks..

Ive been trying to get my brother to use circle hooks for some time now.. Might just buy him a pack..

Thanks for the input guys.. Ill probably be checking out the rainshadow blanks.. I have a thing for 2 piece rods.. Never liked 1 piece.. Just personal preference i guess.. Limits my options i know, but it is what it is.. I wish there was a place fairly local to check blanks out.. I am never. A fan of ordering online.. Expecially with more expensive items for this exact reason...

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: August 21, 2018 12:40PM

I wish it would stop double posting messages for me..

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 21, 2018 01:01PM

I got confused about looking for more "power" in an ultralight rod? I'm with you on preferring 2-piece spinning and casting rod blanks, but then I don't have a pickup truck with a tailgate to hang my rods over for display purposes. Modern rod blank designers have worked miracles compared to what was available 20 or 30 years ago. Savvy fly fishers have flocked to four-piece blanks, and the performance of fly rods is much more important to fly fishing than the performance of spinning or casting rods is to bait or lure fishing.

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: August 23, 2018 04:39PM

Concerning your question about the way your brother sets the hook .......you didn't mention what kind of baits you're fishing for the smallmouth, but if you're fishing baits that you fish on a slack or semi slack line (except for a drop shot), then IMO your brother is doing exactly what he needs to do.. Light line, and lighter powered rods calls for aggressive hook sets. Especially with smallmouth bass. Smallmouth are bait crushers. They have powerful jaws and use them to crush the bait in their mouths. If you're not setting the hook hard (especially with stretchy nylon mono filament line) you're not moving the bait in the fish's mouth. And you must move the bait in their mouth to start hook penetration. Rare is the day, (in my neck of the woods anyhow) that a smallmouth sets the hook for me.

If I'm swimming a grub or a worm on an open hooked jig, then yeah, they'll pretty much set the hook for you, but otherwise you'd better pop them of you'll lose them on the first jump. As far as the tap tap tap and missing the fish on the hook set goes ..... my guess is it's a small fish, and it is hitting the bait repeatedly in order to kill it so it can eat it. That's a common occurrence in the lakes that I fish, and even more common if you're fishing crawfish imitations. Small fish will try to disarm a crawfish before eating it. If you're fishing a crawfish imitation, look at your bait after one of those tap tap taps, Chances are it's missing at least one pincer, if not both.

The only time I don't use an aggressive hook set for smallmouth using slack and semi slack line techniques, is when fishing a drop shop. Then it's just a sweep of the rod when I feel the weight of the fish on the line. But that's when I'm fishing a nose hooked bait and using thin wire hooks.

Thick hooks, Texas rigged or weedless rigged baits and jigs ..... blast them.


But that's just me :o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2018 04:41PM by David Baylor.

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: August 23, 2018 04:46PM

Oh .... and you don't have to fall out of the boat setting the hook. It's all about generating rod tip speed, With speed comes power .....

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: Anthony Unger (---.15.236.249.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net)
Date: August 24, 2018 02:52AM

We fish basically the same setups, 2 medium splits, #4 standard baitholder hook, barbless.. Earthworms.. Both use 6lb mono.. I use spiderwire ezmono, he prefers trilene smooth casting.. Nothing fancy, but boy do we get alot of fish every year.. We rock fully dressed in line spinners as well.. (Being a fly tyer, i cant help but make the things look like a work of art lol) we call ourselves trout fisherman, but honestly we seem to primarily go after smallmouth.. And cats, since ive started working nights it seems thats the only time i get to go out anymore... We are the kind of fisherman that there can be a whole in a small creek where you can see many fish.. But there we are, above the whole in the the rocks where the current is cascading across the rocks with small pockets where the water surges before droping i,to the pool.. We prefer a challenge... But at the same time, swinging bait in a river system, or chillin alongside the canal waiting for a strike..

Diversity.. But with the same rod.. I want to change that... Ive done so for myself already.. The rod i just built, after a fair amount of "before work" fishing, was originally built for in line spinners... My fenwick is the all around rod.. I cant even find a blank that has a weight rating of 1/8-3/4oz.. (The fenwick has this) its remarkable how rounded that rod can be..

I just need to remember i am trying to build specific application rods...

As for the tap tap tap.. Your right.. Its usually a bluegill, or at night, an eel.. Both of us can usually tell what kind of creature is on the end of the line by the hit..

Using the same tackle we set the hook very different.. Some years he catchs all the fish, and i dont get a bite... Others years, (like this one) im on fire... And he doesnt get a thing..

Im going to be building a rod for him for Christmas, my mother is commissioning it.. Dont know how much she plans on aloting me for the build, but dont worry.. Ill be asking your guys opinion on blanks.. Lol

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Re: Suggestions on rod action and power
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: August 24, 2018 03:36PM

Ahhh .... live bait and spinners. Yeah, different story on hook sets with those baits. You Anthony, have it right. Just reel into them and they're on.

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