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Pac Bay FX or Minima single foot guides for a fly rod?
Posted by: Andrei Zabet (---.residential.rdsnet.ro)
Date: August 15, 2018 01:18PM

Is there any benefit from using ceramic guides for fly rods or the guides are heavier than the snake wire guides? I might go with a Sage Method 10 wt. blank for my next fly rod and some people recommend this kind of guides. As for me, I would still go with snake guides, maybe some titanium ones. Thank you.

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Re: Pac Bay FX or Minima single foot guides for a fly rod?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 15, 2018 04:06PM

I like the quietness of the ceramics and how much more freely they pay out line, particularly under load/drag. Having said that however, I tend to use the Minima's for more fly rods these days, at least anything under about an 8-weight. There is a slight difference in weight but it is enough to realize a difference. If you are willing to use titanium framed type ceramics on your 10 weight Sage, you might enjoy them without paying much in the way of a weight penalty.

..............

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Re: Pac Bay FX or Minima single foot guides for a fly rod?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 15, 2018 04:13PM

"Titanium" guides go from pot metal coated with a couple microns of vapor-deposited titanium to solid nickel-titanium alloy. There are no solid titanium guides. The NiTi snake guides are an excellent choice for "big fish" fly rods, such as ten weights. They are strong, lightweight, corrosion proof even in saltwater and will allow bigger knots and "twists" to pass through than ring guides can.

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Re: Pac Bay FX or Minima single foot guides for a fly rod?
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---)
Date: August 15, 2018 05:25PM

Andrei,
As most here will know - I disagree with the use of ceramic guides on a fly rod - of any weight - even heavy surf fly rods.

The fly rod blank does not know if the weight it is asked to endure is from the fly line or the components.
Therefore the more weight you ask it to carry in components, the more it robs the blank of line-weight carrying capacity.

I like a fly rod to develop high line speed - which means that the blank's "recovery-rate" will have to be as high as possible. Adding weight in the form of ceramic guides decreases its recovery rate. Plain physics.

My current go-to guide train for a 10wt is:
One #20 Fuji titanium SiC or Torzite ring, one #16 REC Recoil single foot spinning guide (RSPG), one #12 REC RSPG, one #10 RSPG, six #4 REC Recoil single foot guides.
Tip-top is REC Recoil large loop.

This set-up keeps the fly line off the blank which reduces "line-wrap" and friction from the line/blank interface.
Regards,
Herb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2018 06:01PM by Herb Ladenheim.

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Re: Pac Bay FX or Minima single foot guides for a fly rod?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: August 15, 2018 05:39PM

Nickel titanium (nitinol) is an 1:1 alloy of nickel and titanium and has the unique properties of shape memory and super elasticity, only REC guides use this material. Almost all high end titanium guides are greater than 90% pure titanium, with the other alloy components used to increased strength and hardness. So when guide manufacturers use the term 'solid titanium' they are referring to an alloy containing at least 90% titanium. Pure titanium is to soft and brittle to use unalloyed. If guides are PVD coated with titanium nitride or chromium the manufacturer will state this.
Norm

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Re: Pac Bay FX or Minima single foot guides for a fly rod?
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---)
Date: August 15, 2018 06:07PM

Andrei,
What Norman says is true.
The Sage Method #10 is a very "quick" blank. I owned both the "Method" and the "One" blanks in a 10wt - just to "wiggle them and compare to the CTS.
The "One" was too heavy but the "Method" is light and fast. You should let it perform up to its potential.
Herb

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Re: Pac Bay FX or Minima single foot guides for a fly rod?
Posted by: Andrei Zabet (---.rdsnet.ro)
Date: August 16, 2018 03:35AM

Thank you for all the inputs, they are very helpful.

I would go with REC recoils RSNX guides and Fuji KW stripping guides. As for sizes, Sare recommends a certain setup for this blank. Snake guides: #3 x 5 pcs., #4 x 1 pc., #5 x 1 pcs., then strippers in #20 and #12.

I already use another Sage Method custom build rod in 9', 9 wt. and I would like this 10 wt. to make it more of a super-shooting rod, for SW (and SW) fishing, but mostly for saltwater.

Should I stick with Sage guides setup or, considering I'll be using recoil guides, could I increase the size of the snakes - to #2 or so?

As for the strippers, three in #20, #16, #12 or just two (#20 & #12)?

I will not build this rod myself, but will have this built by a rod builder in my country. I will have to buy all the supplies and provide them, so I must choose the right sizes from the start.

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Re: Pac Bay FX or Minima single foot guides for a fly rod?
Posted by: Andrei Zabet (---.rdsnet.ro)
Date: August 22, 2018 05:47AM

I have received the components from my European retail shop, and everything looks great. However, I would try to change the Recoil snake guides #3 with #4, as the 4's look a little more stronger, at least to me. I ordered the guides setup as per Sage's recommendations for the Method 1090-4 blank, with 2 stripping guides in #20 & #12, ans the rest - snake guides, only that I switched to REC RSNX guides.

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