I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2019 EXPO
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
All American Guides
American Tackle
Angler’s Roost
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
Anglers Workshop
BatsonRainshadowALPS
BRC Rods
Bingham Enterprises
Canada Rodbuildersupply
CRB
Cork4Us
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
CTS New Zealand
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
Hitena USA
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Mickels Custom Rods
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
Pacific Bay
ProProducts
Reelseatblanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rod Components USA
Rougarou Rods
Rodgeeks
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Magazine Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VisualWRAP/VisualWEAVE
ZipCast

Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Kevin Althoff (45.52.37.---)
Date: August 15, 2018 05:54AM

I just finished taping guides on a heavy (30# braid) spinning rod I've been working on. I've always test casted rods, but I thought the term line slap was a bit over used- until I tested this rod. The blank is a Seeker CBW709, guides are all KW's wit the right to change the top couple runners our for KT's if I feel like it. I located my choke point using the table top method (which agrees with 27x plugged in to the GPS) at about 45" from the spool axle.

The two reduction trains I tried were 30-25-16-8 and 25-20-16-8. Both layouts produced unacceptable line slap with me generating only half the line speed I would hope to on a real cast. The layout with the 25 was better, but not by much. Interestingly, these layouts place the 30 stripper up around 17" from the spool and the 25 goes way out at around 29." Typically I would have a stripper somewhere in between, but this layout doesn't seem to generate that. According to the GPS a 30L would fall at about 2 feet but I'm not sure why on earth I'd ever use that guide (I sure as heck didn't order one).

Obviously something has to move, but anything I move will either move my choke point or have me using a different reduction train layout entirely. I'd like to use the size 30 stripper so I can handle mono if need be, but it seems like it would have to go further out. I would rather not move my choke point out towards the tip any more, this blank has ALL it's flex in the top section, and if I move my choke further out I'll have reduction guides going on that part of the blank which I really don't want.

Where do you guys think I should go from here?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Ross Pearson (---.dlth.qwest.net)
Date: August 15, 2018 09:47AM

Something to try - Keep the same choke point, 30 stripper at 23", 20 at 34", the rest 8s.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dyn.centurytel.net)
Date: August 15, 2018 10:05AM

Suggestion !: Don't mix the table top and the 27X at the same time. Pick one.

Suggestion 2; Table top "is" GPS so the results from both should be similar. An error in reel measurement or poor positioning on the table edge can skew results further and further apart. Default to table edge, it's visual and easy to "see"

Suggestion 3: When laid out in bullseye configuration the 30 - 25 - 20 - 10 spaces better than the 30 - 25 - 16 - 8 IMO.

Suggestion 4: Use line intersection with the table as your choke rather than 27X, unless you choose 27X. Again, choose one.

Suggestion 5: Don't discount the 30L too quickly. Lots of surf rod builders in the NE use a 30L - 20 - 10.

Suggestion 6: Bullseye the reduction train of your choice and then begin moving the ENTIRE reduction train closer to the reel in 1-2 inch increments. I would guess (and it's a wild guess with no reel info or anything) would be a stripper around 21-inches from the tip of the spool axle and the choke a little closer than 27X puts it - at around 42

Hope this helps!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: August 15, 2018 11:24AM

What size reel are you using? Having a NGC choke pt at about 45” from spool tip suggests a spool diameter of 1.67” which is about the size of a 2000 reel. My Shimano 2500 has a spool diameter of 1.83”. If you are using a larger reel that may be a part of your problem, your choke pt needs to be moved further out. Placing the stripper at 17” from the spool tip is much too close even for a size 1000 reel. Move the stripper further out. Let us know the reel size.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 16, 2018 03:55PM

Kevin,
Go with a size 30 tall guide, then 20, 10 and runners.
Place the stripper guide at 25 inches and go out from there.
Tape the guides on the rod and do some test casting and let us know your results.

The general rule of thumb that I go with on stripper size and placement is to thread the line through the taped on guides and then pull off 20 feet of line.

Put your stockinged foot on the line to create some tension. Then, slowly turn the reel handle and retrieve the line.

Pay close attention to the line and what it does on the stripper guide.

I like to have the placement of the guide, the size of the guide and the height of the guide - so that as the line is retrieved under moderate pressure, the lins just barely touches the stripper guide all of the way around the guide as the line is retrieved.

For example, if the line rubs hard on the top of the guide, the guide is too close to the reel or it is too small or too short. If the line rubs on the side of the guide, the guide is too small. If the guide rubs hard on the bottom of the guide, it is too close or it is too tall.

I learned this technique many many years ago, who was a big fish catching person who make a thousand casts a day with very heavy line.

He pointed out this problem with one of the first rods that I made for him such a long time ago.

But, after listening to his concern, I modified my guide size, height and placement locations to accommodate these needs, and I find that the effort to retrieve the heavy lure with the heavy line is much reduced, and line slap is eliminated as well.


On a rod with heavy line, I would start with the stripper at 30 inches from the face of the reel and go from there as needed.

Good luck

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Kevin Althoff (45.52.37.---)
Date: August 16, 2018 11:39PM

Thanks for all the advice guys! Took it all to heart and did some testing. First off, Thanks to Norman for noticing the typo. My spool is 2" so that would make my choke point 55." That's what I have on the rod.

I used Roger's advice and started with the 30 stripper at 25" and then went 25-20-12 for the rest of the reduction train. I lost the snap weight I use to test cast pretty early in the game so my results are with a light bass jig, but I thought the rod performed exactly how I would want it with this layout. On retrieve the line is contact with the stripper all the way around but there is very little deflection. Line slap is gone, pending a test with some real weight and during daylight hours. I'll definitely be moving the stripper out an inch or so tomorrow just to see what happens but I'm not expecting to be able to improve on the current layout much, seems pretty darn good like this.

I'll also be taking on bets on whether I find that 3oz snap weight in my yard before, during, or after the next time I mow.....

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 17, 2018 04:51PM

Have you considered a conventional reel? In the hands of a competent caster they can out-cast a spinning reel, the star drag on a conventional reel is still versatile and easily adjusted, and a running fish won't twist the line no matter how far he runs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Kevin Althoff (---)
Date: August 17, 2018 11:08PM

Phil- I somewhat recently bought my first true conventional (no levelwind or cast control/brake). Having fished baitcasters my whole life it was a humbling process adapting to a totally free floating spool, but for certain kinds of fishing I prefer these reels. I still have my reasons for preferring a spinning rod in this case though.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.drr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: August 19, 2018 04:21PM

Very interesting Jim and Roger. Roger, when I got back into building in a serious way about 10-12 years ago I had an extensive discussion with a true expert builder who advocated that the line should contact only the lower half of the first guide on retrieve. I argued for basically your method. I never truly understood or believed the "lower half" method-didn't make sense then or now. Nice to hear that someone who successfully builds a lot of rods has the same or similar philosophy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 20, 2018 09:10AM

Michael,
The idea of using a stripper guide of a size, height and placement such that the line just touches the full 360 degree of the inside of the guide really shows up in lesser effort when one is casting heavier lures hundreds or thousands of times a day.

As pointed out earlier, this method gives the overall least effort in retrieving the lure due to the lesser amount of friction and overall line drag through the guides.

Good luck

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Line Slap on Heavy Spinning Outfit
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 23, 2018 09:52AM

Is there a point as tackle gets heavier when a conventional casting reel and rod are superior to a spinning reel and rod? I know casting reels can cast farther than spinning reels, but casting reels require more practice to use effectively.

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster