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Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: August 11, 2018 12:46AM

Tom,
Thank you for reprinting Volume 5, Issue #6 in the current RodMaker Magazine. It is no wonder it is the best-seller of all issues with its in-depth background, information, suggestions and qualified assistance from Ian, Mike and Tom. Those, such as me, who are relatively new to the site and magazine, now have access to the wealth of information contained within that article. I now have the confidence to, at least attempt, build a Stand-Up-Rod (along with a compatible harness). There are two particular issues within the article of which I took special notice and interest; 1.) Spiral-wrapped roller guides, 2.) The angler’s physical ability to battle very powerful fish.
As for the latter, at 65 years old, I might be exhausted after a battle with a 100lb Blue Fin on a 50lb rod. Kinda-like the older I get, the stronger I was! At least I still have enough testosterone to still want to Bring-It-On!!! None the less, the article did an admirable job of enlightening and addressing the, possibly overlooked, safety issue of battling big creatures of the sea.
The other issue regards spiral-wrapped roller guides. Has there been any progress with applying rollers to a spiral-wrapped rod? I would like to build such a rod for a boat-owning buddy who takes me fishing out here in So-Cal. Although sporadic, the tuna do hit here without having to fish in Mexican waters. Admittedly, the tuna we typically get north of the border are <100lb, but multi-day charters going south are a definite possibility.
While this post was initially addressed to Tom K., any and all feedback will be graciously appreciated. I feel safe to say that the orchestration which Tom K. conducts both this website and RodMaker Magazine is second-to-none. I also feel safe to say we all appreciate if immensely.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: August 11, 2018 09:59AM

Mark,
All American Guides, a very longtime sponsor to the left is the only company I know of that makes roller guides for spiral wrapped rods. They are a quality product.

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 11, 2018 10:05AM

Mark,
I wonder, when you hook up to a big fish, do you keep the rod in a rod holder?

If you do, I would think that the issue of guides on the top or the bottom of the rod tends to be a mute point.

If you don't keep the rod in a rod holder, why not?

Take care

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 11, 2018 10:06AM

Mark,
I wonder, when you hook up to a big fish, do you keep the rod in a rod holder?

If you do, I would think that the issue of guides on the top or the bottom of the rod tends to be a mute point.

If you don't keep the rod in a rod holder, why not?

Take care

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: August 11, 2018 10:34AM

Been some years, but the only time a rod was in a rod holder, or rocket launcher on the large stationary boats they use was when you lost gear, or moving to another spot. Otherwise, you would be on the move at the rail a good bit with each fish you, or someone else had on.

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 11, 2018 05:27PM

What advantages would a spiral-wrapped stand up trolling rod have over a conventional rod?

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 11, 2018 09:29PM

It would eliminate the tendency of the rod to torque and twist under load. In other words, putting the guides on the bottom of the rod creates an inherently stable rod.

..............

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 12, 2018 10:25AM

Even with spiral-wrapped guides the line still does a 180 degree turn around the blank. The spiral guides spread out the torque points on the blank but do they reduce the total torque the blank must bear?

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 12, 2018 10:40AM

Doesn't matter - guides are lever arms. Loosely tape up a set of guides and string the rod up. Load the line and allow the guides to seek their own position. Take note of what happens.

.............

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: August 12, 2018 12:20PM

Hello Mark.

I have built a few of these rods, and yes I use the rollers from "All American Guides", they work great and I have never had a problem with them so long as the owner understands roller guides need occasional maintenance.

My favorite for the fish you are talking about (Tuna at about 100#) is a Seeker CTS55XH with the All American Guides AANS Silver-Gold guides, 10" fore grip, a Pacific Bay ARS2M-B reel seat, a American Tackle SB-1 slick butt, and a gimbal from Jann's Netcraft, 280-731-001.


Good Luck

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

Bridgeton, NC.

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 12, 2018 02:52PM

Tom K.: Now I get it! Path of least resistance. That makes perfect sense.

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: August 13, 2018 02:02AM

Roger, the answer to your question is no. Simply put, a Stand-Up rod requires the angler to Stand-Up, control the rod and fight the fish without the aid of a fighting chair or rod holder, both of which would (should) include a gimble notch to at least reduce the tendency of a guide-on top rod from the radial torque and noticeable twisting while under heavy load. Rather than relying solely on the gimble notch to keep the rod in an upright position, a spiral-wrapped rod, with the runners on the bottom, will inherently allow the rod to experience virtually zero torque and be much more stable under load. But then, I’m certain you already knew that.
My original question stemmed from the development / availability of purpose-built roller guides suitable, applicable, if not unique to spiral-wrapping. A lot of time has transpired since the original article was published in Rod Maker Magazine 15 years ago. As Tom mentioned in that article,”The spiral wrap concept is simple too good and offers too many advantages not to be adapted to the heaviest of stand-up rods by someone at some point”.
Thanks,
MT

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 13, 2018 04:31AM

These @#$%& guides do a very nice job for a roller guide when wrapped in a spiral fashion:

[www.allamericanrollerguides.com]

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: August 14, 2018 12:58AM

As always, thank you for numerous replies. Apparently, All American Roller Guides are the only game-in-town when considering roller guides applied to a spiral wrapped rod of the 50lb + category. It seems odd to me that Aftco and others have not followed suit. While fishing out here in SoCal, LaLa-Land with my spiral-wrapped rods, I think I spend more time (attempting to) explaining the benefits to bewildered, inquisitive anglers than actually being allowed to fish. Charter boat deck hands are the first to take notice and comment, but even with their immense experience, there simply seems to be a general attitude against spiral-wrapped rods out here. Am I the only ocean angler on the Left Coast who recognizes the profound advantages of an Acid Rod?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 14, 2018 07:24AM

Fishermen get used to things being a certain way. Although spiral wrapped rods go back over 100 years, most fishermen have yet to actually see one and thus find them odd when they do. Generally, those who are willing to actually try one will at least admit that they fish very well.

...............

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: Mel Shimizu (---)
Date: August 14, 2018 08:45PM

Spiral roller guides are very difficult to set up properly. I have tried and have come to the conclusion that SIC ringed guides are much easier and better to use. For giant bluefin rods that I build for PEI I use the Fuji HBSG guides. I find that I only need two sizes in my builds. I start with a size 20 and the rest are all size 12 using a three guide transition and a aftco bent butt. No need for rollers. Just my opinion.

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: steve schuster (---)
Date: August 18, 2018 03:11PM

Mark Talmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As always, thank you for numerous replies.
> Apparently, All American Roller Guides are the
> only game-in-town when considering roller guides
> applied to a spiral wrapped rod of the 50lb +
> category. It seems odd to me that Aftco and others
> have not followed suit. While fishing out here in
> SoCal, LaLa-Land with my spiral-wrapped rods, I
> think I spend more time (attempting to) explaining
> the benefits to bewildered, inquisitive anglers
> than actually being allowed to fish. Charter boat
> deck hands are the first to take notice and
> comment, but even with their immense experience,
> there simply seems to be a general attitude
> against spiral-wrapped rods out here. Am I the
> only ocean angler on the Left Coast who recognizes
> the profound advantages of an Acid Rod?

Hi Mark,
I'm also in So. Cali. and my son and I use nothing BUT spiral wrapped rods for anything from calico bass to bluefin tuna.
It seems like every time we go out on a party boat, someone will say "hey you need to fix your 2 piece rod, the guides aren't lined up right"!
I just tell them to Google "acid wrap".
I also build lots of rods for buddies that do the long range thing for cow tuna. They all want spiral wraps.
The process definitely works, and even more so on larger fish!

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Re: Stand Up Rods / Sprial-wrapped Rollers
Posted by: steve schuster (---)
Date: August 18, 2018 03:29PM

Mel Shimizu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spiral roller guides are very difficult to set up
> properly. I have tried and have come to the
> conclusion that SIC ringed guides are much easier
> and better to use. For giant bluefin rods that I
> build for PEI I use the Fuji HBSG guides. I find
> that I only need two sizes in my builds. I start
> with a size 20 and the rest are all size 12 using
> a three guide transition and a aftco bent butt.
> No need for rollers. Just my opinion.

Ditto Mel, nothing but HBSG sic guides and tip for me.
Most of the reels my buddies use (Avet H/50/80) on cow tuna require the size of a 25 stripper to avoid line contact on the extended hypo.
I then go to a size 16, and the remainder size 10 to the tip in a 3 guide transition.
This seems to be the smoothest set up, and the line follows the blank perfectly.
Since these guys don't use wind-on leaders, and are fishing "stand-up style" the size 10's are more than adequate to pass any braid/mono knots.

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