Hi all, So I have read most of the articles in the library and in the FAQS pages.Also all of the info on the Angler's Rsrc website.Alot of info for a newbie to the game to get his head around.Enjoying the learning alot.Just wondering is ngc layout just a start point before doing a static load test or are they two seperate ways of achieveing a guide layout?If using BLYOG as reduction guides would you use BLOG as the running guides? Then what tip? Would be on a 7ft spin rod,2500size shimano reel,5lb braid.Also to measure a guide is it the od of the ceramic insert? That will do for now.More questions tocome for sure.Cheers Scott

Scott,
To simplify the guide layout a bit, just go to a 3 guide reduction train. Start with the first guide that is tall enough and far enough away from the reel to allow for a straight line run down to 1/2 way up the rod.

Then, go to two successively smaller guides placed further up the rod. Finally go with running guides all of the same size and the tip top of the same size as the running guides.

With the guides taped to the rod, having run a line through the guide - just check to see that the guides are in the right place and of sufficient quantity to insure that you have just enough guides to allow the line to follow the contour of the loaded rod blank.

Good luck

If you're actually wanting to put together the best performing layout for a 7 foot spinner using a 2500 size reel and light braid i would do what the guys on here told me to do and i can't thank them enough because the 8 footer that i finished is the most awesome fishing and casting rod i have ever used.

I followed the exceptionally simple Anglers resource KR worksheet , not only did it tell the best size guides to use for the reduction train but the spacing as well , just to see how close Fuji's recommendations were i taped on the recommended guide sizes at the locations they recommended and i'll tell you , i tested many different sizes of guides and spacings but the info they came up with turned out to be the best casting rod i have ever used , seriously consider trying it .


Your rod is 7 feet so type in 84 inches , estimate distance from butt end to top of reel spool , type in a 2500 size reel and the lighter braid choices and see what it spits out .



[anglersresource.net]

Dup



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2018 10:52PM by herb canter.

Thanks for the advice gents.Think the price of the k series guides would rule me out Herb..Have not done a full price match as yet but was trying to stick with the Orings.Would guide placement rules change when going to the heavy side of spinning.Had a look at my 15kg 7ft spin rod matched to a 850ssm spinfisher and when i had a look at how a ngc would go on it I just got confused.Spool diameter is 74 mm used the 27* and it put the choke right near the end of the rod.mmm.Atm just trying to learn how things work.My first build will either be a 5'7 15kg stand up rod or a 6'6 15kg jig spin .Have a couple of light spins to replace broken guides on for practice.Cheers.

Scott,
I think your over thinking it a bit, none of the methods you mentioned cares what length your rod is, they simply tell you where the reduction guides should be. If you rod is 5 ft. long, or 15 ft. long changes nothing, you just have more running guides or none at all depending on the length of rod in front of the reel. If the short rod you mentioned has it's suggested choke point past the tip of the blank, than the blank tip is the choke point and adjust all the guides accordingly.
Lastly you are not stuck using Fuji guides, or any particular style, the systems only worry about the height of the guide off the rod blank at a specific point on the rod. You can look up the height of the guides the program selected on the Fuji site, then look for similar built and height guides from any other manufacturer and use with the same results. A lot of the sites now give you their guide specs, if they are a minor difference from the Fuji heights, it's not an issue.
I hope we haven't muddied the waters to much for you.

A set of Concept O guides would be about half the cost of a set of Fazlite KR guides. The KRs are more expensive, but worth it. In my opinion a KR setup is superior to the NGC on fresh water and light inshore spin rods. For the first rod you mentioned using the 2500 reel with light braid, you could substitute the PacBay Minima4 match (M) guides for the reduction train and fly (F) guides as runners, in place of the Fuji KR KLH and KB/KT guides, respectively. A set of the chrome/chrome PacBay Minima4 guides will cost less than the Concept O guides and the entire set of guides will weigh less than a BYOG 25 stripper. These guides will work very well on L to MH spin rods. As Herb mentioned above use the Fuji KR GPS to determine guide sizes and positions. The Minima KR-like layout will give you a very light and responsive rod that will cast great. If you have concerns with the tip top grooving use a Fuji Alconite LG tiptop. For a 2500 reel with 6-15 braid you could use 16M, 8M, and 5M for the reduction guides and 4WF (or 5F) guides as runners. If you are planing on ever using heavier braid (15-30) use 20M, 10M, and 5M for he reduction train.
For the second heavy duty rod you mentioned using the 850 reel, makes it difficult to get an ideal guide layout. Since your reel spool diameter is about 3” it puts the choke pt beyond the tip top, so you almost have to go COF or try a rapid choke. Stripper guide size and placement is dependent on reel size the larger the reel the higher the stripper and/or the further the distance from the spool. As Roger mentioned you want a relatively straight line from the spool to the bottom of the stripper.
If you still want to use the Concept O guides the BLOG guides will work as runners.
Norm

A three guide reduction train of Fuji corrosion resistant KL-H guides ( CC Silver with Fazlite rings) transforming into KT runners ( Also with Fazlite rings) would cost about $20.00 and make a 7 foot spinner with a 2500 size reel and light braid an absolute rocket launcher . I priced them out on Mudholes website .

I agree with the others about over thinking this stuff , most everybody does it and you will drive yourself nuts , as far as using an 850 SSM reel on a 7 foot rod what exactly is this rods intended purpose and just how heavy duty are you talking about because that reel is enormous and weighs a ton . Even if fishing 65 pound braid that reel is an absolute Goliath , is this 7 foot spinner meant for fishing heavy lead and pulling up behemoths from the ocean floor ?

Just trying to help and you're the one who must be happy with it but the above two gentlemen have immense experience and i only comment on what i have experience with and just trying to help you avoid making a mistake which i also have extensive experience in.

Wow guys that's alot of good info.Will need a second coffee for my brain to process.Thank you.Yes I probaly was over thinking things.That 850 combo I mentioned I have used for nearly ten years I think and have never really looked at the rod or thought about where the guides were.It has worked just fine the way it is.Was looking out of curiosity now that I start my rodbuilding journey.Here in Australia we have a saying " curiosity killed the cat".Herb that 850 combo is maily used for small bull sharks off the bank at my local river or in my boat doing same.It only has 30lb braid.Yes it's heavy, noisy,clunky and dose not lay line great.At the time for the dollars could not pass it up.It has caught bullys to 6 ft.Will have a look at the pac bay guides.Thanks guys.

Braid is very forgiving when it comes to guide placement, much more so than mono. If the heavy duty rod and reel combo works for you then fine. However, you might see a performance enhancement using a smaller reel. Th use of braid will still gives you plenty of line capacity, and modern spinning reels have very good drags even in the smaller models.

The Minima4 M guides are very close in height to the Fuji KLH guides and thus make suitable substitutes. [www.mudhole.com]

PacBay also makes a ceramic ring match guide that could also be used, the Hardloy version is also quite inexpensive. They are heavier than the Minima4 guides of the same size. [www.mudhole.com]

Norm

Bull sharks off your boat huh , then that reel fits the bill lol . Not surprised in the least that 30 pound braid handles them , i have been using braid considerably lighter than that for the last 15 years while surf fishing and have had no issues . You can probably get a set of minima's for around $10.00 -12.00 instead of a KR set in the $20.00 range .

i,ve narrowed it down to line stiffness..the stiffer the line the closer the choke guide to the rod tip even if it means using cone of fleight because of very stiff or wiry line like the earlier mono lines with each guide acting like a choke guide untill the line exited the tip giude..limper lines can be choked very quickly and the choke guide moved closer to the reel..the light braided lines only need a small butt guide then runners..so called transition guides are what,s left of the old cone of fleight system and each chokes or tames the line..limper lines come off the spool in much smaller loops making them easier to tame unlike stiffer line and it,s bigger loops..to me braided lines make lighter guide trains possible and thus lighter more sensitve rods..