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Pages: 12Next
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No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Ken Patek (47.201.57.---)
Date: May 31, 2018 10:05AM

Building on a Calstar blank for a friend who insists on using his 6500 bait runner spinning reel. When placed on the rod, the axis of the shaft almost runs parallel with the blank, so there is no intersection to set the choke on. So.... I’m thinking I need to do a cone of flight layout for the guides. (Which I’ve done, and now am chasing a line slap issue). Anyways, I’m curious how y’all would lay out your guides (what style) faced w/ this scenario.

FYI, blank is 7’ 25-60lb (Calstar 610) and it’s a 6500 reel spooled w/30# mono.

(I posed the line slap question on the Facebook pages, so forgive me if you’ve seen questions on this build already)

Thanks in advance

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: May 31, 2018 10:29AM

Don't you have to determine what line will be used in this rod/reel setup? It seems like #30 gelspun braid would behave much differently in the guide train than #30 monofilament and result in significantly different line slap issues?

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 31, 2018 10:30AM

Spool shaft angle is arbitrary. Therefore it is better to use one of the more modern systems that take into account the actual real spool diameter. Try the 27 X method or use the system Plug in system found on the Anglers Resource website. Or use the microwave system.

..........

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Ken Patek (47.201.57.---)
Date: May 31, 2018 10:39AM

He wants his 30# mono, on that reel, on that blank, no matter where I try to steer him.

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Ken Patek (47.201.57.---)
Date: May 31, 2018 10:49AM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spool shaft angle is arbitrary. Therefore it is
> better to use one of the more modern systems that
> take into account the actual real spool diameter.
> Try the 27 X method or use the system Plug in
> system found on the Anglers Resource website. Or
> use the microwave system.
>
> ..........

That’s the problem, if I do that, it puts the choke past the tip of the blank. ( BTW, I’ve found that the intersection method puts the choke pretty close to the same spot as the 27x method, at least when I build to 3000 spinning reel)

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Ken Patek (47.201.57.---)
Date: May 31, 2018 10:57AM

I should probably add, he specifically said he wouldn’t be using it to cast far, he’ll be free lining/dropping bait. Point being, I’m wondering if I should even worry about the line slap, and focus more on what the static test tells me the guides should go. I’m my own worst enemy....

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 31, 2018 11:06AM

your in good company..lol..

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 31, 2018 11:19AM

Then the best you can do is use the tiptop as the choke guide.

..........

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: May 31, 2018 08:43PM

Microwave 30's?

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 31, 2018 09:52PM

Ken,
I would think it would be pretty simple if you just put a size 30 match guide at 20 inches from the reel seat and then went from there.

Normally, with a larger taller stripper guide you will eliminate the line slap issue

I would simply go with a size 30, 16, 10 and 8's to the tip with an 8 tip top on the rod.

Good luck

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 31, 2018 11:49PM

Size 30 Match guides do not exist. Because of the large spool diameter, 20” is much too close even for a size 40 stripper. The dilemma Ken is facing is a large reel with heavy line on a short rod. One solution would be to do a more rapid choke set up. For this, I would certainly start with a KW30 as the stripper, because of its height, and place it somewhere around 26-29” from the tip of the spool. Maybe a little closer or further away after fine tuning by static testing and test casting. I would place the choke guide aproximately the same distance from the stripper as the stripper is from from spool tip (26-29”). You can push the choke out a little further if needed. Between the stripper and choke I would use a KW25, followed by either a KW12M (only comes in a titanium frame) or a KL16. The KW12M and the KL16 are almost identical in height. Your choke and runners could all be the same size, and the size would be your choice I would probably use size 10 or 8 KTs, with a matching Tip top. The single ft KL and KTs are plenty durable and strong enough for most types of fishing. It does not seem that casting distance is of importance for this rod, so this set up should work very well plus it may cast just fine.
Norm

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 01, 2018 11:25AM

Norman,
Yes, you are right on the size 30 match guide.

[www.fishpacbay.com]

The Pac Bay minima - listed on page 20 of the catalog would for some rods. Depending on the size fish being targeted - you might have to go to a heavier and stronger guide.




Drop down to a size 25 match guide at 30 inches from the reel, then go to the size 16, 10, and 8 to the tip with a size 8 tip.

I doubt very much if there would be any line slap issues with this set up.

Good luck

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 01, 2018 11:25AM

Norman,
Yes, you are right on the size 30 match guide.

[www.fishpacbay.com]

The Pac Bay minima - listed on page 20 of the catalog would for some rods. Depending on the size fish being targeted - you might have to go to a heavier and stronger guide.




Drop down to a size 25 match guide at 30 inches from the reel, then go to the size 16, 10, and 8 to the tip with a size 8 tip.

I doubt very much if there would be any line slap issues with this set up.

Good luck

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.60.---)
Date: June 01, 2018 07:06PM

I say don't overthink this. Reel angle is, IMHO, highly overrated as a significant factor in rod design. Do a 27X, select stout single foot spin guides that will best cast that 30 pound mono, and experiment to get the best performance. The real issue is 30 pound mono, not the reel angle or lack thereof. I would start with a stout 30 guide, reduce in no more than two more guides, and use matching runners in size 6 to the end. My selection would be Batson VS3's. Don't worry about tangle-free, 30 mono will not tangle.

I have made many rods, before becoming so anal retentive about heights/angles/reel angles/ etc, that have cast and fished very well.

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: June 01, 2018 08:05PM

heck, even 40 or 50# braid works better than 30# mono..good stuff Michael..

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 01, 2018 08:57PM

From what I understand, Ken’s problem is that when he does a 27X calculation,based on the reel that will be used, the choke pt is beyond the tip. I agree with Micheal and Tom that reel angle is over rated, and I am beginning to believe that the 27x method is also not the answer in some situations, and this is one of them. The reason I suggested the 30KW is because it is a quality heavy duty double ft high frame guide, that pairs nicely with a 25-60 # saltwater jigging rod. A high frame stripper is an advantage when using a large reel, it allows the stripper to be placed in a relatively normal position, without being pushed too far away from the reel. The other reduction guides i mentioned group well based on height with the KW30. I have found that a more rapid choking system works quite well on many types of spinning rods, and for this particular build Ken’s options are limited by his client’s desire to use a large reel with heavy mono line.
Norm

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 01, 2018 09:05PM

If you have a very large reel on a very short rod, then there is no New Guide Concept system that will be "the answer." This is one of those oddball situations where you simply have to do what you have to do in order to make things work.

.................

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: June 01, 2018 09:56PM

This might be a situation where (dare I say it?) cone of flight might be as good as anything.

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Ken Patek (50.234.188.---)
Date: June 02, 2018 07:17AM

So many good replies and a lot of things to try out! The silver lining with any issue I come across in rod building is the education gained from over coming it. Thanks again to all of you willing to take the time to respond. I’ve been away from the bench all weekend, but when I get back I’ll post what I ended up doing for the solution.

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Re: No intersection of reel shaft line w/blank..
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: June 02, 2018 09:00AM

If your interested, Batson has a spinning rod guide spacing pdf for the RX6 knife jigging rods on their web site, might give you a place to start for grip lengths, guide sizes, etc.

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