BEWARE! once you use ceramics you will never use wire again..lol.

The titanium Sic L guides you are planning on using will work great. They are very smooth and light, and will never corrode.
Norm

Thanks guys. Couple more questions. After a little further research, I see that most of the people recommending the 16-10-runners layout were talking about LV or SV guides. The KL 16 is the same height as both the LV and SV 16s, but they don't make a 10. The KW guides I was planning on using are shorter, so I'm not sure if I should go to a 20-12-runners layout.

So now I'm considering these, and I'm not sure which way to go:

KL16-KL12-Runners
KW20-KW12-Runners
KW16-KW10-Runners

Also, since I'm going with the K framed guides for the first two guides, should I go with K frame runners?

Seth Johnson Wrote:
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> The Rodgeeks C4F908.4 looks pretty good for the
> price, thanks Herb



Sure thing , the RodGeeks carbon IV material is considered the same as St. Croixs SC IV grade of carbon . Unfortunately Rod Geeks doesn't offer an equivalent to St. Croixs SC V material at this time , RodGeeks carbon II stuff is equal to St. Croix's SC II grade of carbon and after picking up a RodGeeks carbon II blank i can say with certainty thats exactly what it is .

Just good info to have in case somebody likes St. Croix blanks but wants to save a little $ , either way best of luck and i hope you enjoy your first fly rod build.

The KT10 fits in where the KLs leave off. However, I would most likely use a double ft stripping combo, either the KW20-KW12 or the KW16-KW10 combo. The size of the reel will play into the equation as to which combo to use. You do not want a really sharp angle going into the stripper guide. Although the Fuji KT guides are not normally thought of for use on fly rods, they will work just fine. In fact you can get them in both a normal titanium or black titanium frame. The black titanium uses the new slim Sic insert which is thinner and lighter than the regular Sic insert, but costs the same. The KTs will be more expensive than the L guides, but that is your choice.
PS - The KTs are also more durable than the Ls so there will be less problems with guides snapping off at the foot.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2018 12:49PM by Norman Miller.

I don,t know anything about KT durability but have three flipping rods with nine #6BLAG guides on each rod that spent more time under water poking snags loose between heavy tree limbs down to as much as seven feet..i never broke or even bent a guide..that,s more than enough durability for me..

I am in the process of building a North Fork Composites 9’ 4pc 8wt using Fuji Torzite KW16, KW10 and 10 SIC Ti framed L6 s with a Torzite KG Arowana 6 tip top. If you want to use a 20 size stripper you will want to move it closer toward the reel. You have to use more single foot ceramic guides to get good performance out of the rod at least that is what my research and practical testing has come up with. There are actually less wraps to do than on the 8 double foot snake guides (16 vs 10) so there is barely a perceivable weight increase also the Arowana Tip Top weighs less than the snake fly tip top so you are saving weight where it matters the most. Even if you do not use single foot ceramic insert running guides you may want to consider the Arowana tip top instead of a conventional fly tip top. I also know that the Fuji L framed guides are lighter than the Pac Bay Minimas in the same size. The only real con I can come with is the price that the single foot ceramic guides cost. They are 2.5 x more expensive than the REC snakes and you need more of them. I also agree with Tom on the size, a 5 is appropriate for a 5 wt or less but in my opinion too small for 6+ sizes. I think the FG knot is best for flyline to backing connection for passing through ceramic ringed guides.You should not have a problem with loop to leader connections with a size 6 or 7 mm ring. Your stripper alignment should be a line of site through the rings the same as you would do for your other builds. You can wrap one section at a time but you may want to invest in another dryer so you can epoxy two sections at a time.
Tight Lines,
Lance



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2018 08:04PM by Lance Schreckenbach.

Lance Schreckenbach Wrote:
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> I am in the process of building a North Fork
> Composites 9’ 4pc 8wt using Fuji Torzite KW16,
> KW12 and 10 SIC Ti framed L6 s with a Torzite KG
> Arowana 6 tip top. If you want to use a 20 size
> stripper you will want to move it closer toward
> the reel. You have to use more single foot ceramic
> guides to get good performance out of the rod at
> least that is what my research and practical
> testing has come up with. There are actually less
> wraps to do than on the 8 double foot snake guides
> (16 vs 10) so there is barely a perceivable weight
> increase also the Arowana Tip Top weighs less than
> the snake fly tip top so you are saving weight
> where it matters the most. Even if you do not use
> single foot ceramic insert running guides you may
> want to consider the Arowana tip top instead of a
> conventional fly tip top. I also know that the
> Fuji L framed guides are lighter than the Pac Bay
> Minimas in the same size. The only real con I can
> come with is the price that the single foot
> ceramic guides cost. They are 2.5 x more expensive
> than the REC snakes and you need more of them. I
> also agree with Tom on the size, a 5 is
> appropriate for a 5 wt or less but in my opinion
> too small for 6+ sizes. I think the FG knot is
> best for flyline to backing connection for passing
> through ceramic ringed guides.You should not have
> a problem with loop to leader connections with a
> size 6 or 7 mm ring. Your stripper alignment
> should be a line of site through the rings the
> same as you would do for your other builds. You
> can wrap one section at a time but you may want to
> invest in another dryer so you can epoxy two
> sections at a time.
> Tight Lines,
> Lance


Thank you very much Lance, your posts on 2Cool are what inspired me to start researching this project. I'm planning on getting the reel you ended up buying (Galvan Torque 8) and tying the leaders the way you recommended. Sounds like I'll be able to get away with 6s, but I may just go to 7s to be safe. I'm starting to think I want to do Titanium Torzite, which would put me having to use KT guides. What are your thoughts on this?

KW16, KW12, Ten KT7s to the Arowana 7 tip top.

Big redfish flies tend to "windmill" and twist fly lines, and this in turn causes fly lines to hang up in the guide train. The geometry of snake guides allows then to pass a larger obstruction than a ring guide of the same nominal diameter. Weight is not much of an issue with snake guides, so you could go with larger diameter snake-style running guides also.

On mine with ceramics I'm very close to the St. Croix spec., not enough to mention, I see no need for the other guide recommended earlier, the St. Croix tip is nice, and soft for the short stuff when needed, the extra guide will weigh it down some, I like mine lively. The stripping guide size is governed by height more than ring size, hence the standard 20 mm low frame recommendation which is similar in height to a high 16 mm., the guides after that need not be a high frame, all low frame guides works very well.
The first time you wag your rod tip to get your line out through the guides and in front of the rod, than roll cast it in front of you to straighten the line for your pickup and back cast and deliver you'll know the difference, the line just flies out of the guides as you wag the rod, same when you cast it.

My thought on tangles going through the guides is that if it passes through the snake running guides it is going to get hung up on the tip. I would rather clear the tangle a little closer in than the tip. The KTs will work but I don't like the idea of the two support welds to the ring frame for heavier fly lines but heck they are "tangle free". In reality the size of the guide ring is more important than what the guide ring is made of, Torzite , Alconite, Zirconium or wire doesn't really matter. I don't like single foot snakes because at the base they have a pinch point for the line, so I like a fully enclosed circle. Ceramic guides do have a slippery feel and they most likely help preserve the fly line. Where we live and fish in the highly corrosive environments along the Gulf Coast the titanium frame is almost a necessity so titanium or anything that is light and essentially corrosion proof is good.

I have 8, 9 and 10 wt rods built on SCV blanks, using Fuji titanium/ ceramic guides. If my experience translates to you, you will really enjoy fishing this rod. You can use info offered here to tweak guide sizes and location but I would not change your basic concept. Its quite sound and your component choices well balanced as to quality and value.

i have an SCiv with #5.5 sic. guides, 9 weight no problems what so ever and i used nail knots..i don,t think loops in fly line werre available back then..lol.

Ended up going with the CTS Affinity X 8 weight, here's a picture
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