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Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Justin Carlson (---.64-179-164.vastbb.net)
Date: May 03, 2018 09:48PM

Hi guys I was wondering if anyone knew how long the open time was on the pro coat high build. I wanted to try it for a rod I was working on. First thing I noticed is that It was definatly thicker but it is high build. 2nd I seen a lot of bubbles in the syringe when i pulled it out of the bottle. When i mixed it, the bubbles got worse and it almost looked like the Pro Glue not wrap epoxy. I put it in a foil pan and tried to blow on it to pop the bubbles. It seemed to go on the wraps harder than the normal Pro Coat and had a lot more bubble that i was not able to get out. It seemed as I got closer to being done its was starting to thicken up after 45 min. It usually doesn't take me that long to put epoxy on my wraps but the high build was stiffer to work with. Any ideas what i could do to improve these issues. I made sure that my measurements were exact and i mixed it for minimum of 3 minutes. Thanks Justin

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 03, 2018 09:58PM

If you're getting bubbles in the syringes, then you're @#$%& air instead of all epoxy. Push the syringe deeper into the epoxy component before withdrawing the plunger.

45 minutes is a LOT of working time. It should not take more than about 30 seconds to coat a guide wrap.

Yes it will be "thicker" than lower build epoxies. That's normal.

The temperature where you're working will dictate pot life and viscosity (to some extent). Higher temps mean less post life but thinner mix. Lower temps mean more pot life but thicker mix.


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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 03, 2018 10:25PM

The high build formulation of ProKote is a beast if you're accustomed to the medium viscosity ProKote.

First, warm (don't heat to the 2nd level of @#$%& temperature) the resin (Part A) until just warm or tepid to the touch. 8 to 10 seconds in a microwave is more than enough.

If you are mixing by hand then easy does it else you will create bubbles. Better yet, use an electric mixer build for mixing epoxy. Gently blow on the mixed epoxy in a flat metal pan or dish through straw and most of the bubbles will pop.

Work as deliberately and efficiently as you can taking care not to "over work" the epoxy, which wastes time and likely as not produces more bubbles. The high build formulation has a very significantly shorter open time, which is nowhere near 45 minutes. It's more like 15 to 20.

A brief flash of heat on the finished wraps will help the leveling.

Turn by hand 180 degrees every minute for 5 minutes, then every 2 minutes for 10 minutes, then use the lathe drying motor or whatever you have to rotate the rod for you. I think the hand turning does more to permit bubbles to surface and pop than does heat.

Some advocate for "cutting" the high build with a few drops of acetone or DNA. I prefer not to as I've no idea what, if anything, it might do to the final cured properties.

Frankly, I've found the medium viscosity ProKote to be more user friendly. Yes, it rarely covers with a single application, but it has a generous open time, levels and releases quickly, and 2 thin coats usually builds a nice, deep finish. About the only way to mess up is to get heavy handed and create a football.

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Bill Sidney (---.gci.net)
Date: May 03, 2018 10:33PM

warm it up some , before you draw it into your syringe , make sure the snout is full before you draw , warm it up will help to flow , Hot water or Micro wave ,. will warm it up ,
don't need much heat , every one will do it there way , when warmed up POT life time goes down, [ no free lunch ]

William Sidney

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 04, 2018 01:13AM

From my experience with ProKote, Donald is spot-on across-the-board, especially concerning thinning / altering the original mix ratios!!!

Mark Talmo

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.drr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 04, 2018 08:22AM

I believe that a leaky syringe will introduce air, also. Move the syringe "plunger" slowly, and possibly get new syringes. I left high build epoxies behind years ago, see no need for them. Regular Pro Coat has a very long working time, so long that one sometimes wonders if it will ever cure. It will if properly mixed.

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Tony Boschi (---.craigtechinc.com)
Date: May 04, 2018 09:16AM

3 secrets, 2 secret I learned from people on this site, one secret I learned on my own:

1. Exactly as Bill Sidney suggested, Take the full closed Pro Kote High Build bottles and put them into a Tupperware or plastic bowl. Fill the bowl with water until the bottles are JUST ABOUT to start floating. Empty out some of the water so the bottles still sit on the bottom of the bowl. Remove the bottles from the bowl and put the bowl of water in the microwave for 3 to 5 minutes. Loosen the lids on your Pro Kote and put the bottles into the hot water for 5 minutes. This warms the High Build up PERFECTLY!

2. If you have the 2oz or 4oz bottles, there is a "pointy" lid on the bottle (I forget the actual name of the pointy lid!). With a razor, cut it off EXACTLY in front of the line on the pointy lid. Your syringe will fit PERFECTLY inside the hole you made cutting the pointy lid off at the line. Turn everything upside down and draw both resin and hardener out to the amount you need, SLOOOOWLY. Turn it back over and push the plunger of the syringe SLOOOOOOWLY into your foil pan. The SLOWER, the better to get no bubbles.

3. Get the "Alcohol burner" they sell at Mudhole. You can get all the Denatured Alcohol from Home Depot that you need. If you get bubbles, use the Alcohol Burner to warm up the Pro Kote on your rod so it "flows". Be careful, too much heat and it will come off like a waterfall! When you warm up the Pro Kote, you can also use your brush to put little strokes on the bubbles and they will all disappear.

4. *EDIT* ... If you have the "quart" or "gallon" bottles of Pro Kote, Go to Home Depot or wherever and get some "rubber surgical tubing". Get pieces long enough to reach the bottom of the bottle. Stick your syringe in the surgical tubing and draw the resin and hardener out thru the surgical tubing. This makes life so much easier than having the resin or hardener all over your syringes. I actually cut / drill a hole into my quart bottle lids so the surgical tube stays in the bottle all the time. No mess and no waste.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2018 10:03AM by Tony Boschi.

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Bill Sidney (---.gci.net)
Date: May 04, 2018 11:43AM

Tony has hit it on the nail head, one thing I will add to his method is after it is mixed an you still have a couple of bubbles, big or small , if you drop one or two drops of DNA on top of your mix, watch what happen's watch the bubbles, it works for me ,

William Sidney

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 04, 2018 12:48PM

Warning, with DNA on wet finish.

DNA is NOT a solvent for epoxy finish so it really never blends with the finish. The end result is that the alcohol becomes lodged in the epoxy and it has the effect of creating a rubbery finish.

With respect to bubble issue and mixing.

Pull in equal quantities of part a and part b into their respective syringes. Put into the mixing cup and mix for 120 seconds.

Don't be concerned about the bubbles.

Apply a generous coat on the butt wrap and each of the guides. Just apply it quickly and generous enough to get a full covering on each of the guides and butt wrap. The entire application should take about 2 minutes for the entire rod.

Then, use gentle heat - flame, heat gun or what ever - on each part of the rod that has had finish applied. The gentle heat will thin the finish and cause all of the bubbles to escape from the finish. Dab off the excess on a slow turning rod.
Do this for the full length of the rod from the butt wrap to the tip of the rod.

Then, go back to the beginning and check one more time for any excess or light spots of finish and touch up if needed. Again, use gentle heat as you do this to insure that the finish flows nicely and is free of bubbles.

Continue on up to the tip.

Then, go back one more time under bright lights and magnification to insure that every wrap is perfect and no more work is needed as the rod is turning slowly on the dryer.

Let dry over night and package it for shipment or put it in the rod rack for use. Normally no more coats will be needed when using the high build finish.

The total time spent on the application of finish, touch up and final inspection should be less than 10 minutes.

Good luck

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: May 04, 2018 01:24PM

Justin, get a few small kits of various brands and try them. You'll find one you like, then stick with it. It's a little added expense, but well worth it. I like Flex Coat and others. Shouldn't be that much work to use finish.

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Bill Sidney (---.gci.net)
Date: May 04, 2018 04:18PM

I agree with you Roger, not a thinner but it works great for me , it thins , as well, as get reed of the pesky bubble there, no problem a drop will do away with it , real fast , I think

William Sidney

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: John Van Emmerik (---.static.reno.nv.highlandswireless.com)
Date: May 05, 2018 11:26PM

I just used Pro Kote high build for the first time to finish two 4 wt. fly rods. I've used Flexcoat, AmTak Clear coat and Threadmaster high builds in the past. I mixed equal portions using syringes, stirred pretty vigorously in a cup and poured it on a flat tin foil surface. Blew on the mix with a straw and all the bubbles popped. Applied with a brush. It seemed a bit thick but was easy to get good coverage but minimize build up. Had plenty of working time. Blew thru the straw to pop bubbles on finished wraps and let it turn on the elec turner for 3-4 hrs. Like suggested above application of gentle heat is important. The cured finish is perfect and I'm very pleased. This is the same procedure I've used with other finish products and the results are similar. I don't use a flame or heat gun. I'll leave that to the pros. Sorry your experience was not good.

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Re: Pro Coat High Build Issues
Posted by: Justin Carlson (---.64-179-164.knology.net)
Date: May 07, 2018 09:30PM

Thanks for all the advice guys, I will give the high build again but I will be using these tips.

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