First of all, thank you to those responding to my original silk thread post and also those reading this post. I did not concern myself with attempting to locate any remaining Pearsall’s Gossamer silk thread for my “invisible wrap” test if it will be unavailable in the (near) future. I had acceptable results using the YLI from Rushbrooke Strand and have yet to (but will) contact Gabriel from hitenausa for his gracious free sample silk thread offer.
Although possibly not for every build, I am pleased if not intrigued with the effects of the invisible wrap. It actually makes the wraps appear to be lighter compared to a typical solid colored wrap and seeing the actual guide foot is a quite different effect. But an unforeseen benefit to the invisible wrap is the ability to actually see if the tunnels along the sides of the guide feet are completely filled with wrap finish.
Being from the composite industry, I take pride in my ability to meter and wet-out a laminate, and thread wraps are essentially the same; FRP or Fiber Reinforced Plastic. However, while test wrapping my first invisible wrap, I observed trapped air pockets along 30% of each side of the guide foot. The tip of the foot and beginning of the tunnels under the ring were filled very nicely, and if using solid colored thread would have been convinced the tunnels were completely filled. Granted, I was using high build ProKote in a 62* shop, but it made me wonder how saturated my previous wraps have been.
Rather than simply a wrapping effect, the invisible wrap may also be used as a “Thread Finish Saturation Indicator”. After all, the less porosity, let alone air pockets, in a FRP laminate, the better it will ultimately be. Are you sure your tunnels are filled?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, Did you end up using natural white? And yes I would assume a warmer environment, Or a quick blast with a hair dryer would have helped with your tunnel voids.

hi Mark..i don,t care if the tunnels get filled..i use locking wraps to stabilize the guide and besides enough cp gets in around the guide foot to help keep it from shifting..the tunnels at the tip are small and fill easily but at the butt they are much larger and i don,t think can be filled without taking lots of time to do so and really for no benefit other than cosmetics..since i don,t sell rods, i probably got my prioritys mixed up..lol.

the 62 * temp is where you would want at least 70 * don't get me wrong it will still work but the epoxy won't be as viscous at lower temps that is why a lot of users heat their epoxies before measuring the portions for mixing and choose to finish off with a light shot of heat from a burner or heat gun to keep the viscosity there fro a bit longer so things like the tunnels fill and any possibility of air pockets/bubbles are filled or popped

I my self get my parts ready and mix them and then after poring them on the foil pallet to apply I just pass the bottom of the pallet with a disposable lighter just add enough heat to eliminate the bubbles not cook the mix it goes fast just a second or 2 dependent on the room temp.
the clear wraps I have done over the years I have found that the tension of the thread is the key to getting them perfect.
hope this helps.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Matthew,
I also heat the finish, but I wait until the finish is on the thread wraps. I want as much working time as possible from the finish so I would rather apply it on the cool side to increase the useful life of the finish.
Then, after applying the finish - bubbles and all if there are bubbles present - I just pass gentle heat over the finish with one of several different sources and the bubbles disappear and the finish becomes as thin as water and flows easily and completely to fill all tunnels and voids.

Good luck

Hi Mark,

Glad to hear you got a good result. Our homepage has some photo of invisible wrap done with our AAAA Natural Silk thread and our epoxy on our blank. [hitenausa.com] It has both photos of before and after finished is applied. With this finest AAAA thread, I know some people are concerned that it might break during wrapping but I have never experienced it for 10+ wraps so far on my hand wrapper with some tension applied. It's strong enough and won't break at normal wrapping tension.

As for the tunnel air pocket, I'm not sure if it has anything to do with thread thickness but I didn't have that problem on my wrap - I just recognized that could be a problem after I read your post. Pls check from the photo.
Thanks.

Gabriel Hwang
Hitena USA LLC
gabriel@hitenausa.com
[www.hitenausa.com]

Thank you for the replies.
Jay, I thought I ordered the natural white but it seems to be more of a bright white rather than an expected off-white I would associate with “natural”. At least I can see the invisible wrap effect.
Ben, while your priorities are probably NOT mixed up, a filled tunnel must support a guide better than one with voids. Now that I build rods, I always utilize locking wraps as well. In over 50 years of fishing, I have never had a guide pop out and being the cheap bastard I am, have never spent more than $70.00 on a rod, all of which possibly had voids in the tunnels and certainly had no locking wraps. Your priorities are just fine.
Matthew, I agree a thinner viscosity finish applied at a warmer temp would have been preferred, but this was simply a test wrap. But observing those voids got me wondering if not habitually-over-thinking yet again. You brought up a possibly good point regarding thread tension. When I first started building rods and posting on this site, I asked all of you what the preferred thread tension was but never got any precise answers, possibly because it is a relative term and difficult to describe. I probably have a tendency to wrap fairly tightly to avoid spending 45 minutes on an involved wrap only to have it come apart due to a loose beginning or ending over/locking wrap. As with other aspects in life, I typically prefer tight over loose.
I just wanted to pass along an observation in hopes it might help some of you. After all, many of you have graciously helped me tremendously and it is very much appreciated.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark as for the thread tension thing it is what you feel is right for me I like my thread to be a bit tight so that I can pack the wrap as I go that is a pain at some times but it does making the final burnishing quick and easy as there is no creation of thread gaps or over lapping because it is to loose.
and yes thread tension is a relative term it is what you prefer.
one thing I have learned in all the years of building rods is you never stop learning new methods and tricks to make the task easy and good looking.

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Matthew,
Touché to continual learning!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Jay Dubay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark, Did you end up using natural white? And yes
> I would assume a warmer environment, Or a quick
> blast with a hair dryer would have helped with
> your tunnel voids.

I am just starting my first rod with silk thread and this is an interesting thread for me. Just one question, you use the term "locking wraps". What exactly does that mean?

Thanks

Gabriel, This has nothing to do with this post but I can not get an order placed and can not get in touch with you. Could you have someone call me at 270-776-1376. Thank you.

Gabriel, This has nothing to do with this post but I can not get an order placed and can not get in touch with you. Could you have someone call me at 270-776-1376. Thank you.

Gabriel, This has nothing to do with this post but I can not get an order placed and can not get in touch with you. Could you have someone call me at 270-776-1376. Thank you.

Gabriel, This has nothing to do with this post but I can not get an order placed and can not get in touch with you. Could you have someone call me at 270-776-1376. Thank you.

When I did my clear wraps I was given a few tips by some more experienced rod makers.

1. You don't need to use Gossamer. #100 silk works just fine.
2. Thin your epoxy. Either heat it or use alcohol. The long term effects of alcohol thinning on wraps is a debate in itself, but either way it needs to be thinned.
3. Start applying epoxy at the very tip of the guide foot and work your way up the tunnel. Allow the air a way to escape, if you close off that guide tunnel before the air can get out it makes it much more difficult for that air to exit the tunnel.
4. If you do get a bubble use a thread pick to open up the wrap slightly and let it out. I did not run into this issue myself, but have heard it works quite well.

Tom

Hi John..Tom has a good article in the library about the Forhan locking wrap..but i never used it with silk..you may have to use a two wrap locker with silk in order to do any guide aligning after you get all guides wrapped..

You can align a guide with a Forhan Wrap, just don't trim your pulled through thread till your done. The type of thread wouldn't make any difference on whether you can use a Forhan Wrap, I've used it on micros, with silk, and Perma Gloss finish.

Thanks Spencer..good to know..