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Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Cutter Smith (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 08:46AM

I'm new to the site and new to rod building so I apologize in advance for silly questions and messed up terminology! Also, thanks in advance for any responses.

I'm building my first rod. It's a MHX 7'6" (L - 903 I believe) 8-17lb blank. I ordered the pre-packaged Fuji KL-H guide pack for the length blank. It came with a 25,16,10,5 for reduction guides and then 5-5's for running guides (I think I said that right).

When I received, I couldn't believe how small the guides were compared to all the other similar weight / size salt water rigs I own - especially the running guides. I'm matching with a Shimano Stradic 5000 FJ with 25lb powerpro which I use 20-30 lb flouro leader. Are "production" rods oversizing the guides? Did I order wrong?

Any insight is appreciated!

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 09:03AM

Cutter,
You have the perfect guide set for your rod. Build it and enjoy.

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Cutter Smith (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 10:21AM

Thanks Roger - good to know. Out of curiosity, are the production rods using larger than needed guides?

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Mark Brown (---.tic.va.gov)
Date: March 09, 2018 11:15AM

Full disclosure I only have 2 years under my belt. But agree, The guides you have are right on. As far as production rods, it takes less time , material and money to put on fewer guides. That and production rods are what the "typical buyer", not builder is used to seeing. Take your time and have fun with your build.
- Mark B

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dyn.centurytel.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 11:15AM

The high frame small ring guides you ordered are part of the KR Concept. Fuji introduced it a few years ago and it has almost become the default guide choice for the majority of spinning rods being built by custom builders. More factories add more KR Concept rods every year but they are slow to change because so many consumers have the exact same reaction you did when you saw the guides.

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Mark Brown (---.tic.va.gov)
Date: March 09, 2018 11:24AM

that guide set will cast well just a little tedious to wrap the smaller guides - until you get used to it



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2018 11:40AM by Mark Brown.

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 11:43AM

Cutter - Mudhole really screwed up putting the Fuji KR guide kits together. The KL16H should not be in that kit it should be replaced with a KL12H in order to have the correct size grouping for a KR build. Mudhole advertises that their 7’7”-8’ kit (which I assume you are using) contains (1) KL25H, (1) KL16H, (1) KL8M, and (1) KL5.5Lfor the reduction train. This reduction train grouping is not recommended by Fuji. For a four guide reduction train using a size KL 25H stripper Fuji recommends KL25H, KL12H, KL7M, and KL6L, or KL25H, KL12H, KL8M and KL7L. I mostly use a three guide reduction Train of KL25H, KL12H, and KL6M. So the Mudhole KR guide kit is not put together properly. If you are going to do a KR concept build do it right by using the proper reduction train. Here are the recommended KR spinning guide groups. [anglersresource.net]
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2018 11:48AM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 11:51AM

PS, I should mention that the KR concept is tha best spinning guide concept I have used. So set it up correctly!
Orm

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Cutter Smith (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 01:36PM

OK. Thanks for all the responses. Norman, when I spec'd the kit, I spec'd it for the 7'-7'6" but I measured the actual guides when I received them. I'll take another look at it this evening to make sure I got it right.

Makes sense on why there are not more of these out in the production world. Thanks for sharing the info!

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 09, 2018 07:53PM

If you actually received the 7’-7’6” KLH guide kit you are ok, since it is advertised as containing a KL25H, a KL12H, a KL7M, and a KL5.5L for the reduction train. Not what I would use but should be ok. However, if it contains what you listed in your oringinal post, I would certainly not build a rod with that Mudhole KR guide kit. A size KL25H stripper should never be used with a KL16H in the reduction train. If in doubt, I would either send the guide kit back or order individually the correct KL guides to make a proper KR reduction train. I do not know what Mudhole was thinking when they put these KLH guide kits together. For the most part a KR concept build on most rods only contain three guides in the reduction train.
Norm

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: March 10, 2018 11:53AM

One method of wrapping the small foot KT's, and even KB's if you cannot get them to stick on the blank well before wrapping, is to start your wrap and when you get to the spot where you want the foot of the guide to be, place the guide under the next wrap. The guide will be held by the thread not at the tip, but farther along the foot toward the ring. When you get a good number of wraps (experiment with this-it will vary with the foot, thread, and tension), start sliding the guide, at its proper orientation to the intended line path, out of the wraps. As you get it close to its proper position, you can slide a few wraps to the end of the foot, slide the other wraps into proper position, then continue the wrap.

I admit this is not a piece of cake, but it works better for me than any other method with really small guide feet. Other builders us elastic thread, tiny cable ties, the hot melt product, and other methods to stick the guides to the blank before wrapping. Practice this method on a scrap blank to see it you want to use it.

I love the KL-H setup, and agree with the previous commenters on proper guide sizes. What I now do is simply order the right three reduction guides from the groups shown in the catalog based on intended line use, then order the proper number of matching running guides, including a couple KB's, and it will work fine. I have settled on 5.5's as my most used running guide, but with ultra lights and other special builds, will build with 4's or 4.5's. One thing good about 5.5's is they will pass most line to line knots in the pound tests I use most. For casting rods I use the RV first guide, then all the rest KB;s and KT's of the same size, usually 5.5 or 6, to the tip. Casts great. For heavier casting builds I'll use all KB's for the running guides.

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Re: Help with guide specs?
Posted by: Cutter Smith (---.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
Date: March 11, 2018 06:33AM

Update here - while I measured again, frankly am not sure the sizing of the second and 3rd reduction guides was shipped ( i have a ring size chart that is less than easy to match Ring’s to - although i am sure the first one is the 25 - 2nd and 3 rd are in question) I did lay out the guides on the rod. The reduction train laid out well with a good straight line down the axis of the reel through the tops of the 4 guide rings - fairly close to what the gps measurements were. I wrapped those yesterday.

Michael, Thanks for the insight on the technique to wrap the running guides. Will tackle those today. This forum is terrific. Really appreciate the help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2018 09:40AM by Cutter Smith.

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