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Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 01:37PM

Greetings rod builders;
Even tho' I have fished all my life, I have absolutely zero experience building or repairing fishing rods so I need all the help I can get. I have 2 beautiful old Rich Make Super flex 10 1/2 ft steelhead rods and I don't fish for steelhead any more (arthritis - both knees). I have purchased a small (16') boat for salmon fishing (West Coast, Canada) and I would like to rebuild these 2 old rods and convert them into 11 1/2 to 12 ft trolling rods. Numerous friends have suggested I'm crazy because it may be cheaper to purchase new rods but (1) a good 12 ft trolling rod is hard to find, (2) these 2 old rods have huge sentimental value to me and I believe the blanks are close to the best thing one can find for a saltwater salmon trolling rod and (3) I'm not incredibly rich but the cost (as long as it's not extreme) is not really that important. (I don't have that many years left and I cant take it with me). In order to get started for the 2018 salmon season I have a couple of questions for all those experts out there.
(1) Is there a website that I can gather ideas and advice from that is not just a big advertisement for the companies that supply the parts?
(2) Rod holders tend to chew cork handles up so what is a good alternative?
(3) Can someone suggest the best eyes (guides) for saltwater trolling?
(4) What is the best placement for the reel seat when using the single action trolling reels (like the Hardy Longstone or one of the new Islanders)?
Many thanks for your help.
Twogone
Ladysmith, BC, Canada

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 02:33PM

Why lengthen them? A longer rod gives the fish more leverage, not the angler.

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 03:09PM

Good question, thanks for your response. At one of the spots we fish at, the springs are very shy and we have better success with very long leaders (6 to 10 ft). Last summer my son lost a beauty because he could not get the fish close enough to the boat for me to net with the 10 1/2 ft. rod.
I had a beautiful 12 ft graphite trolling rod that was given to me by an old friend (great rod builder; wish he were still alive!) and it worked great out there but it broke on a huge spring salmon (which we managed to land with the help of another boat). It must have been bruised at some point and I have been assures it can not be repaired. Additionally, graphite is, in my opinion, just not tough enough for a boat rod. I really miss that 12 ft rod.
I don't see the leverage as a problem, the fish are only in the 15 to 30 lb range and by law we must use barbless hooks so a longer rod really gives the angler an advantage in terms of picking up slack line when a fish heads towards him. Any slack will almost always loose a spring salmon. Additionally, with the longer rod, an old fellow like me with a diminished reaction time, gives the angler a fraction of a second longer to let go the reel handles to let a fish run.

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 08:04PM

Mike,
Look in the site library for the article "Extending Rod Blanks", that will get you started. I'll have to pull down my Lamiglas 10 1/2 ft. single action reel trolling rods, but I think the rear grip is in the 8 inch range, front is a Pac Bay 15 inch cork grip that is built a bit oversized for large diameter saltwater or big butt glass rods, it's just a 15 inch cork stick with no tenons for butt caps etc. A standard pipe style reel seat is all I use on these rods. Lots of good guides out there, gold plated guides for me have been the worst as far as saltwater survivability, have some non-plated and black guides that have survived 30+ years.
You could use a graphite tube for your grips, durable, stays nice looking and slides out of rod holders real slick. You can make your own ends from EVA that will smooth out the transitions on the fore grip, I can send a pic of some of my saltwater rod fore grips to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. The problem is you may have to get creative with your blank and extension if your butt diameter gets out of hand. You'll also have a lot of cleanup where the original grips and reel seat were, you might cover that up with a simple decorative wrap.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2018 08:11PM by Spencer Phipps.

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 10:14PM

Simplify your life.

Take a piece of heat shrink tubing and put over the grip and use a heat source to shrink it down over the existing grip Then, take another piece of heat shrink to go over that piece and shrink it down over the grip.
The two layers of heat shrink tubing will give you a very nice tough handle.

Go fishing.

Then, if you want a 12 foot trolling rod, just go out and pick up an inexpensive 12 foot trolling rod for those times that you really mush have the 12 foot length. You did not indicate that there were any guide, grip, or reel seat issues with the current rod and you only had a question about the grip.

An example of an inexpensive 12 foot trolling rod that will fit your fishing needs exactly


: [www.cheaperthandirt.net]

------------------------
Since your current rods have some sementinal value, and you have little experience in building, why not just leave your current rods intact?

Certainly, if you want to make changes, you can certainly do so. However, for trolling, the rod and blank requirements are pretty minimal and should not call for a big investment in blanks and materials.

Good luck

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Don @ American Tackle (---.biz.bhn.net)
Date: January 09, 2018 10:17AM

(1) Is there a website that I can gather ideas and advice from that is not just a big advertisement for the companies that supply the parts?
**** This is a great site and many Facebook pages as well
(2) Rod holders tend to chew cork handles up so what is a good alternative?
**** Smooth Butts are a great alternative
(3) Can someone suggest the best eyes (guides) for saltwater trolling?
**** Depending on the class of the rod take a peek at American Tackle Ring Lock or Turbo for heavier rods
(4) What is the best placement for the reel seat when using the single action trolling reels (like the Hardy Longstone or one of the new Islanders)?
**** 12-14" from the very end of the rod

_______________________________
Blessings, Don Morse

800-516-1750 ext. 1207 / don@americantackle.us

Rod Building..... It's What We Do.

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 09, 2018 10:24AM

Spencer; thanks ever so much for your advice!!!! There is a professional rod builder that lives not far from me and he has a million old broken rods (I've even given him some) and he thinks he can find a ''chunk'' of glass or graphite that will do the job for an extension. He will wrap the guides and do the cork for me but he wants me to clean up the blank and decide on the guides etc. I have hands like meat hooks and one has been chewed up by a table saw so any delicate work is out of the question for me to do. These 2 old rods have been used for salmon trolling and the cork is pretty well chewer up so I will remove it all. Also, the reel seats are rusty and because these were steelhead rods designed for the old Hardy Silex reels, the reel seats are much too close to the butt (like about 5 in.). I think your suggestion of 8 in. is probably pretty accurate. I will have a look at my old shattered graphite salmon rod to see where the reel seat was place on it as I found it quite comfortable to fight a fish with. Also, I may make the forward grip a little longer (A) to cover the join of the 2 pieces and (B) to gain some leverage on a large fish when my left arm gets tired.

Is there a proper name for the ''reconstituted" cork. Someone mentioned to me there is a product for rod handles that is made from chunks of cork all glued together like an aggregate. I'm told it is much harder & tougher than straight cork and would stand up to the "in & out" of the rod holder abuse. Any advice in that regard?

You have given me enough advice & information to get started.....again, many thanks & Cheers; Mike

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 09, 2018 10:53AM

Hi Roger. Many thanks fir your response and advice. I get your point about just purchasing a 12 ft. rod; pretty good advice. However, I'm a sentimental old fool and really love these 2 old Richmakes. One was mine, it was the first steelhead rod I purchased when I switched from a level wind to a Silex (center pin).
That was a long long time ago; much water under the bridge and many steelhead on the beach since then. My son has said he will never forgive me if I don't give him that rod. He does not fish for steelhead but loves to come salmon fishing with me so the rebuilt rod will become his. When I broke my 12 ft. graphite salmon rod, an old steelhead fishing partner (who comes salmon fishing with me occasionally) gave me his old (identical) steelhead rod. This is a very special old friend who I worked with in the woods for many years and we spent many exceedingly enjoyable days on the local rivers together. He has converted to 100% fly fishing for steelhead and no longer used the Richmake. I know that rod was very dear to him and it was very generous of him to pass it on to me. Out of respect for that generosity I feel obliged and would like to ''make it new again'' and fish with it.

The Diwa you suggested certainly looks like a nice rod but being labeled a "Great Lakes" rod I would be concerned how it would stand up in the saltchuck. You are not alone with your advice to just buy a rod; many of my friends have suggested the same. If I do the easy stuff and the local professional rod builder does the delicate work the cost will be only slightly higher than buying a rod and I (& my son) will end up with a really nice peice of fishing equipment.

Thanks again for your advice. I haven't started any work or spent any $$ yet so depending how he planning phase goes, those 2 old Richmakes may just ent up ''on the wall'' after all. Cheers; Mike

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: January 09, 2018 12:47PM

Mike,
You are speaking of burled cork. Heavier than conventional cork due to the glue that glues the cork together, but no internal flaws and much harder and tougher than conventional cork.

An example of burl cork blocks to turn grips to your specifications:

[www.youtube.com]

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 09, 2018 07:25PM

Thanks for your input Don. I have looked at the AmTac Vitrus Heavy ringlock guides and they look like they would do the trick. What is the difference between the Duralite and the Nanolite?

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: January 09, 2018 08:08PM

Mike you want the light guides, not the heavies.

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 10, 2018 02:36PM

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike you want the light guides, not the heavies.

OK, thanks Spencer.

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 11, 2018 02:33PM

Can any one tell me the difference between the Duralite and the Nanolite guide rings?
If so, which would be preferable for a saltwater trolling/mooching rod?
Thanks; Mike

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: January 11, 2018 03:15PM

Hello Mike.

The NanoLite guides are a Zirconium Blend and the DuraLite is a Aluminum Oxide Blend.

I have used both and see little to no difference in durability unless wire is used and I have very little experience there (Don't Like Wire).

They charge more for the Nano, so the MFR seems to think it is better but who knows.

Cliff Hall Posted This 6/4/2006:

VICKER'S HARDNESS SCALE Values
for Line Guide Ring Materials 2005

Stainless Steel (SS): 400 [B.E.]
Chrome: 800-1000 [C.M.]
Carbaloy: 1000 [B.E.]
Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400 [B.E., C.M.]
Alconite (Fuji): 1300-1500 [Fuji]
NanoLite (Titan): 1800 [J.M.]
Zirconia: 1000-1400 [M.G.]
Zirconia PVD: 1600 [B.E.]
SiC: 2200-2400 [B.E., C.M.]


Hope this helps.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

Bridgeton, NC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 10:22AM by Robert A. Guist.

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 13, 2018 06:24AM

That's great information Bob! Many thanks. I will check the price difference and make a decision, Cheers; Mike

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: January 23, 2018 11:27AM

Update;
The old rods are stripped. It was time consuming but fortunately I have some good music and some good Scotch in my man-cave.
I have found several old rods that will provide suitable extension material.
Once the extensions and the sanding is complete I have arranged for a local body shop (old friend) to re-finish the blanks. He has a clear Urethane product that he thinks is flexible enough to do the job.
Once again; many thanks to all you folks on this forum for all the advice& encouragement!
If I can figure out how to add a photo, I will post some when the project is complete.
Cheers; Mike

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Mike H Fall (---.no.shawcable.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 01:10AM

Another update.
I have decided to go with EVA grips for my 2 boat rods. The diameter of the hole in the EVA grip is 16mm and the outside diameter of the rod blank where the grip is to go is 18mm,
Is 2mm too much to stretch the EVA or should I ream it out a little?

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Re: Newbee needs help
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: March 06, 2018 04:52PM

Hello Mike.

I ream mine till they are about 6" from the final position when dropped down the blank but if the grips are custom inlaid, I ream until they fit snug.

Don't forget to run your rodbond 2-4" past where the grip stops when dropped so that it lubricates it.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

Bridgeton, NC.

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