Hi Billy..thanks for your thoughts..i think that is the main feature of locking wraps less chance of side to side guide movement..when i used to do a lot of flipping which is also a lot of snagging my r ods were poking through a lot of tree limbs and guides were getting beat up, still no finish cracking just finish scratch marks..those guides were not moving...i agree that this will never happen, but you never know Fuji has big ears.lol.

Ben,
Certainly, it works fine and is pretty easy to complete.
You can try a myriad of variations, a single, double, triple or a cross wrap as well as a couple of following or more outside wraps on the tips side of the guide for completion.

One thing, be sure to lay in the pull loop, before you get to the end of the guide so that you can do a clean pull through when the wrap is completed.

Good luck

I am a little late to this party but here is what I do. I have been using these guides since they first came out mostly in sizes 5 to 4 mm and I build for a few tournament guys that do inshore saltwater. I was doing no locking wrap at all on KB or KT guides and was not having any failures other than one ring actually popped out of the frame. I believe it was a defect when the guide was fabricated (maybe not enough glue, etc). I did get broken blanks from rough treatment like getting stepped on, high sticking or door slams, whatever. Even getting stepped on and bending the guide did not displace it from the blank. For a small fee I will replace the rod and re-use the old guides, since most of the frames are titanium alloy. Those guides are not easily removed even without locking wraps. A couple of years ago I started using one locking wrap on those types of guides but because I am using only micro sizes it was not difficult to do. I could do more than one wrap without any problem on that size guide but I don't see the point. It adds nothing to the holding power of the guide to the blank. The wrap goes around the base of the guide, that does not push the guide down to the blank. The only need that I can reason for it is to keep the epoxy from cracking at the base of the guide foot when stressed. You definitely need thread in front of the foot of a longer necked guide like on a spinning guide. This will help with fatigue or stress on the epoxy and help prevent it from cracking but even then it does not need to be locked or wrapped around the base, just a few wraps in front of the guide foot. You could also do it by adding a trim ring and pushing it down to the guide base to do the same thing. Yes it always @#$%& forgetting the pull loop.

i was thinking of changing the guides on my cold water spin bait rod to tryout the k-guides and after more thought i may just change the last 3 or 4 tip section guides because that,s where the line sometimes get wrapped around the rod..why change any of the butt guides..i can,t think of a reason. can you?

If you are curious as to how the KR concept performs go whole hog, and replace the entire guide train. It’s the only way to know for sure how it works. Nothing wrong with experimenting.
Norm

Roger, you're suggesting cutting the thread and putting the end through the guide frame between the ring support legs to make a locking loop?

I still don't see what is difficult with simply doing the Forhan wrap with KLH or KT/KB. I don't see where the double support for the ring has anything to do with it. If it's the slope of the guide that's causing trouble, give some temporary slack in the thread, guide guide the thread around the legs with your fingers, reestablish your tension, and push it back into place if you've wrapped past the legs. On my KLH's my locking wraps almost disappear, nothing goes through the frame between the legs, the thread goes around the frame legs and ends up at the base where the two legs come together. At the base the thread cannot tell whether there are two ring support legs or one. I suspect it's the slope that's giving some folks some trouble, and a little practice with the method above should fix it.

. . .Or I'm missing something basic about the problem.

I agree with Micheal, there is no problem doing a locking wrap on these guides. Been doing it ever since these guides were first introduced, and the wrap is easy to do and looks good.
Norm

Michael,
Any time that I have done a locking wrap on a guide, I always do a couple of loops around the vertical section of the wrap as part of the lock.
With the separation of the guide foot style, It makes sense to me to do the locking loops around each of the vertical parts of the guide foot to give it the tight lock.

Good luck

i agree that the smaller the wrap the tighter it is..you can see this when adjusting guides for alignment..the guides at the butt seem easier to move than guides near the tip..the diameter of the wrap has a big effect for some reason..i know there,s some mechanical engineers out there who know why...

Micheal, yes it is the slope of the legs that gave me difficulties. That and 4.5 guides and not so good eyes, even with glasses on. If I felt the need to put locking wraps on a spinning rod, I certainly put more effort into it. As I mentioned way back up there ^^^ .... I only feel the need for locking wraps on my heavy power get the fish out of cover and into the boat as fast as I can, type rods. On those I use guides with a single straight stem.

Easy money doing a locking wrap on those.

David,
If you are having problems seeing, a couple of thoughts:

Lots and lots of very intense light to really light up the wrap while casting no shadows.

Magnification. Get as much magnification as you need to easily see the small and individual wraps that you are doing.

Although I wear trifocals for my normal every day use, i.e. distance, mid range and reading in the glasses, I prefer to use single vision glasses for dedicated tasks.

I have one pair of distance glasses
. One pair of computer glasses with a focal length of 21 inches. One pair of reading glasses wiht a focal length of 12 inches and one pair of TV glasses with a focal length of 10 feet.

Depending on the task, I will use the pair of glasses that give me perfect single vision over the entire area of the glasses. That way I do not have to tilt my head when doing various tasks.
One can use Walmart, or other discount or on line vision stores to purchase single vision glasses for about 20-30 dollars per pair. This is with a set of spring loaded frames and plastic uncoated lenses. Whenever I am not using any of the glasses, they are in a closed hard case so that I get very good and long life from the glasses.

Then when wrapping, I use a set of head band mounted magnifiers with a magnification of what ever I need to do the job that I am doing. In conjunction with the head band mounted magnifiers I will use one of my single vision glasses to get the focal length that I need for clear viewing of the work area.

David, you mentioned using the lock wraps mainly on heavy power rods for heavy cover fishing and that is why i use it even on light power rods because we all get into snags and often end up dipping the rod into the water, poking around to get loose, banging the guides, etc. .i wonder why isn,t water getting into these wraps and one good reason is the opening for the tunnels is closed by the thread used to make the lockwrap then the ep0xy is more secured in that area and never breaks loose so water can get in..this is good protection for all rod wraps and takes hardly any time to make..

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> David,
> If you are having problems seeing, a couple of
> thoughts:
>
> Lots and lots of very intense light to really
> light up the wrap while casting no shadows.
>
> Magnification. Get as much magnification as you
> need to easily see the small and individual wraps
> that you are doing.
>
> Although I wear trifocals for my normal every day
> use, i.e. distance, mid range and reading in the
> glasses, I prefer to use single vision glasses for
> dedicated tasks.
>
> I have one pair of distance glasses
> . One pair of computer glasses with a focal
> length of 21 inches. One pair of reading glasses
> wiht a focal length of 12 inches and one pair of
> TV glasses with a focal length of 10 feet.
>
> Depending on the task, I will use the pair of
> glasses that give me perfect single vision over
> the entire area of the glasses. That way I do not
> have to tilt my head when doing various tasks.
> One can use Walmart, or other discount or on line
> vision stores to purchase single vision glasses
> for about 20-30 dollars per pair. This is with a
> set of spring loaded frames and plastic uncoated
> lenses. Whenever I am not using any of the
> glasses, they are in a closed hard case so that I
> get very good and long life from the glasses.
>
> Then when wrapping, I use a set of head band
> mounted magnifiers with a magnification of what
> ever I need to do the job that I am doing. In
> conjunction with the head band mounted magnifiers
> I will use one of my single vision glasses to get
> the focal length that I need for clear viewing of
> the work area.


Excellent info Roger , i have real trouble seeing clearly as well . Thanks for the tips

Roger, I very much appreciate you taking the time to post those tips. Thank you.

Lighting is a definite problem for me. When I finally set up a rod room, I got an LED desk lamp to use on my table. It's really helped me see my finish and my thread much better, but it casts horrible shadows. Couple the shadows with the shine off a polished SS guide frame and it definitely gives me problems. I've thought about trying one of the lighted head band magnifiers, but I've yet to find one that I feel comfortable with. I definitely need to figure out some lighting that will dilute some of the shadows I get though. I'm thinking of trying some LED strip lighting like I have in my boat to illuminate the decks. Thinking I could make something that's unobtrusive and directional. Something that will illuminate the bottom and sides of the blank, without it shining in my eyes. Definitely something I am going to tinker with though.

I love the tips about the different focal length glasses. I have no problem seeing and reading my computer monitor (about 24 - 30" away) but at 12 - 18" which is about where I am when wrapping, it gets blurry. When you get these different focal length glasses, do you actually get them fitted to you by an optometrist? Or is it something where you just pick through a bunch of different pairs until you find one that does the trick? I definitely need to get a pair for more close quarter work, that's for sure.

Thanks again for taking the time .... I am definitely going to implement some of your thoughts.

David Baylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roger, I very much appreciate you taking the time
> to post those tips. Thank you.
>
> Lighting is a definite problem for me. When I
> finally set up a rod room, I got an LED desk lamp
> to use on my table. It's really helped me see my
> finish and my thread much better, but it casts
> horrible shadows. Couple the shadows with the
> shine off a polished SS guide frame and it
> definitely gives me problems. I've thought about
> trying one of the lighted head band magnifiers,
> but I've yet to find one that I feel comfortable
> with. I definitely need to figure out some
> lighting that will dilute some of the shadows I
> get though. I'm thinking of trying some LED strip
> lighting like I have in my boat to illuminate the
> decks. Thinking I could make something that's
> unobtrusive and directional. Something that will
> illuminate the bottom and sides of the blank,
> without it shining in my eyes. Definitely
> something I am going to tinker with though.
>
> I love the tips about the different focal length
> glasses. I have no problem seeing and reading my
> computer monitor (about 24 - 30" away) but at 12 -
> 18" which is about where I am when wrapping, it
> gets blurry. When you get these different focal
> length glasses, do you actually get them fitted to
> you by an optometrist? Or is it something where
> you just pick through a bunch of different pairs
> until you find one that does the trick? I
> definitely need to get a pair for more close
> quarter work, that's for sure.
>
> Thanks again for taking the time .... I am
> definitely going to implement some of your
> thoughts.


I struggle with the glasses too. I have to take mine off and creep right up there within 6 inches or so to wrap and finish. It's not ideal, but it's the best option I've found.

David,
With respect to lighting:
I have a room that I painted white. White walls, white ceiling, white floors. The white room, really adds to the general overall lighting of the rooom. In addition, I have double tube 48 inch lighting fixtures every 2 feet down the ceiling in a dual row of fixtures. This gives me excellent reasonable light levels and the white everywhere else tends to eliminate shadows.

I tried a bunch of different lights over the years, for the necessary high intensity task lighting and have settled on a Halogen swing arm desk light as shown below:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

The 3 lb coffee can upside down makes a perfect base for the light. The coffee can raises the base of the light to the same height as the rod being wrapped, so that the light can be adjusted to the best location. '
I have a pair of these lights and tried using both different sized bulbs as well as using a single one on the right and or on the left. Although a pair of lights give a bigger light field, the light that is over my wrapping arm puts shadows over the wrap. So, the key was to use only one light and have it on the side that is not my wrapping arm. That way, there is never a shadow under my hand on the thread wrap. '

By the way, I tried halogen light bulbs ranging from 10 watts to 75 watts in the swing arm light. I found that for my setup, that I much preferred the intense light that I get from the 50 watt halogen bulb.
==============
When I want a pair of single vision glasses, I take a tape measure and measure the distance from my eye ball to the area that I need to have perfect vision. i.e. 12 inches for reading, 21 inches for computer and general and of the arm vision use, 10 feet or the distance from my eye ball when in my tv chair to the monitor screen etc.

When using a head band mounted magnifier, the amount of magnification, changes the focal length of a single magnifying lens. So, you might want to use a pair of reading glasses when using a low power magnification, but can change to a pair of computer glasses when using a different power magnification.

Then, when I go into get a new pair of glasses, I take my tape measure distances with me for the correct eye glass single vision prescription.

I will ask the optometrist to set his eye chart at say 21 inches for the computer screen and then ask him to use his procedures to obtain the perfect prescription. Then, I ask him to repeat the test for the other distances of single vision glasses that I wish to have. When I leave, I will have prescriptions for each of the various pair of glasses to be filled at the glass dispensary of my choice. I have never been charged any extra cost for the additional single vision glass prescriptions.

Single vision plastic lens uncoated glasses are so inexpensive, when using an on like or a discount house like America's best, or Walmart, that there is little reason not to have a dedicated pair of glasses to do a job where you are needing them for many hours at a time.

Again, I always keep a hard sided snap top glass case for every pair of glasses that I own. Any time that a pair of glasses are not on my head, they are in the case with the lid closed to avoid any scratching or damage to the lenses.


Take care



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2018 10:05PM by roger wilson.

p.s.


I use a head band mounted magnifier similar to this one:

--------
--------
[ads.midwayusa.com]

Note that this head band magnifier comes with a 3x, a 4x and a 5x power lense that may be used interchangeably for different needs. I normally use the lowest power. But, for some special needs I will go to a higher magnification.

To maintain my vision and focal length, I generally use my 21 inch computer glasses with this magnifier. The overall result is perfect vision at my normal working distance of 14-16 inches that I typically use when wrapping.

Take care

Roger, thanks again for taking the time to reply.

I'm definitely going to see an optometrist about those different focal length glasses. I also book marked the page you linked with the head band magnifier. That one looks nice and light, and the versatility of the different lens options is nice.

Getting my vision needs squared away is going to be a big plus!!!

Thanks again. I sincerely appreciate you suggestions.

Well, maybe not..lol.