I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2019 EXPO
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
All American Guides
American Tackle
Angler’s Roost
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
Anglers Workshop
BatsonRainshadowALPS
BRC Rods
Bingham Enterprises
Canada Rodbuildersupply
CRB
Cork4Us
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
CTS New Zealand
Custom Fly Grips LLC
DBlue Fishing
Decal Connection
DONART
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
Hitena USA
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Mickels Custom Rods
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
Pacific Bay
ProProducts
Reelseatblanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rod Components USA
Rodgeeks
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Magazine Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VisualWRAP/VisualWEAVE
ZipCast

Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
toes should have heels
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 09:11AM

the reason i bring this up is because i like the Fuji K guides but will not use a single foot guide without using the Forhan locking wrap and the K guides do not lend themselves to locking wraps with the split legs they have..suppose Fuji extended the foot to form a short heel so that we can make two or three short wraps on the other end of the guide..does this make sense?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 09:55AM

Ben,
I appreciate where you are coming from.

However, you should realize that millions of rods are built every year without using any locking wraps and they serve a long and useful life with never a guide failure.

If a guide foot has a bit of a flare somewhere in the foot, the guide is quire resistant to tear out of a guide wrap.

Just do a test on some guides by wrapping them well, coating them and then doing some pull out tests on the guides. You may be pleasantly surprised at how well the guides stay on the rods.

About the only time that I have ever used a locking wrap on any guide foot including wrapping a lot of K guides is when the guide foot is shorter than about 1/4 inch.

Good luck and enjoy doing some wrapping without using a locking wrap.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: January 07, 2018 10:07AM

Ben, I agree with you about doing a locking wrap on K guides. It's a pain in the butt in my book. The only thing about adding a heel to the K guides is it will decrease the guides ability to shed line. With that goes their "tangle free design"

Personally, I only do locking wraps on the rods that I will be using to extract fish from heavy cover. Even with those I don't know if it's really necessary. I have never had a guide come loose on any rod I've ever owned.

With all of the above said, I have read many people saying that locking wraps are easy on the K guides. I haven't tried doing it enough to get to that being easy stage. Maybe some day .....

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: Norman Miller (108.76.134.---)
Date: January 07, 2018 10:55AM

I have no problem doing the locking wrap on the KR guides. I add my tie off loop early, wrap right to the stem of the guide, do a couple of wraps behind the guide, do the wraps around the stem, and three final wraps behind everything. Before cutting the thread I take the tie off loop and wiggle it back and forth. This tends to pack the wraps together, without that gap you get if you do not do the wiggle. I also wrap with A or B thread, but not sure if it makes a difference. I also agree with the others that a locking wrap is not absolutely needed. The Fuji KB and KT are designed to stay in place without a locking wrap, I also have to admit that I have never had a guide pull out on rods which I did not do a locking wrap. After I stated replacing lots of micro guides that pulled out on a number of different brands of commercially made micro rods, I started using the locking wrap. The guides on these rods had really tiny feet, and absolutely required a locking wrap. The locking wrap gives me a little more confidence that my guides will not pull out.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: Bruce Tomaselli (---.sub-174-229-131.myvzw.com)
Date: January 07, 2018 11:31AM

To me locking wraps serve no purpose. But, if it makes you feel more confident, use them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 11:57AM

no, i never had a guide pull out either but know that was Rich Forhans reason for using it..i guess if i was fishing tournaments that would be a good reason..i use it to keep that end of the guide a little more stable especially wraps at the lower half of the guide train..guides on thicker end of rod are much easier to move..you probably notice this when doing guide alignment..if you see cracks in the finish at the toe of the guide you can be sure the heel end is much worse..this makes it easier for water to get into the wrap and guide especially salt water..it,s a good reason to use double footers..since i started using locking wraps i haven,t seen cracks even at the toes and so i firmly think this is because the locking wrap keeps the heel of the guide more stable..thus my suggestion to Fuji to extend the guide foot to make it easier to lock that end of the guide..just a thought.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 01:54PM

Ben,
No matter the guide, I wrap the guides very very tightly. I wrap them with a tension that I can just barely move a touch under extreme tension. I see no reason at all to wraps the guides with any less tension. Also, when the guides are wrapped with this tension, the chance of the guide pulling out is further reduced.
I also prep all of my guides so that the end of the guide foot is razor thin. I also think that also helps to be able to accommodate the tension in the thread wraps.

Take care

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 04:14PM

I use locking wraps on the KLH reduction guides with the logic that they are pretty high and may be vulnerable to snagging on something, but I've never seen any real indication that that was happening. I have no trouble making the locking wraps with KLH , never knew there was a problem until this post. I don't use locking wraps on the KT and KB running guides, using the logic that they are so low that snagging on something would be highly unusual and there would be only a minimal lever arm in stressing the guide.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: January 07, 2018 04:40PM

I don't want to speak for Ben, but I interpreted his opening post. was in reference to the KT and KB guides. Those are he ones that I was talking about.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 05:12PM

i,m talking about all the k style guides.. they all have split legs.. you can,t get a functional locking wrap on legs split so far apart like that.. one single leg is best because you can make a tight wrap around it 3 times to keep the guide from rocking laterally which it want,s to do on a round rod..it,s this rocking motion that causes the finishes to eventually crack especially the ring end which gets all the whacks..i don,t think we can secure a guide as well as the Forhan wrap and only suggested extending the guide heel to ty down that end of the guide a little more plus it would be easier to wrap on and finish than a double foot but almost do the same job. thanks for your thoughts.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: January 07, 2018 05:34PM

I don't understand "split leg." Can you show us a photo?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 06:44PM

Hi Michael..my former boss had this picture in his office of an orang tang scratching his head and the caption said - just when i thought i had all the answers they changed all the questions- that,s how i feel about fuji K guides..it feels like a loosing situation.lol. all i know is single foot guides have just one foot that turns into a leg that turns into a ring but these k guides don,t have just one leg, they have two which looks like the one leg was split and extended to reach the ring..maybe calling a double leg is better, i don,t know..i think these double legs are what make them tangle free..i,m just a dumb monkey.lol.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 09:28PM

Most times I never do a lock wrap on single foot guides if your tension is good the guide should stay in place after you apply the cp and or just the finish and make sure the tunnels are full on each side of the guide foot and I carry a bit to the front of the foot. Dumb Monkey NO just asking a valid question

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 10:36PM

Hi Matthew..since adopting the Forhan wrap, i have just about eliminated the need for double footed guides..in fact Forhan said the same thing happened with him..no more double foots..that saves much more time than it takes to use locking wraps on a rod..i mentioned my three flipping rods and the beat ing i gave them over a 15 year period but i never mentioned that i didn,t use any guide prep before tying the guides on except to knock off the paint on the very tip, but no filing to make a thinner guide so that the epoxy wouldn,t crack at the tip..the locking wrap took care of those problems..and it only takes a minute to do it..i don,t worry if the tunnels are full,the locking wrap got that covered because the the guide just is not going to move filled tunnels or not...all the extra guide work is just not needed because of the locking wrap. i think the k guides are good idea but if i can,t do a Forhan wrap i,ll stay with LAGs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: Matthew Paul (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 07, 2018 11:16PM

shaping the tip of a guide is so that the thread transitions smoothly to the guide foot and wouldn't affect the possibility of contributing to it pulling out of the wrap. If you are having that problem on a consistent bases you need to increase the thread tension that you wrap with if the tension isn't enough I can see it happening constantly on all single foot wraps.
I have my own personal rods that I wrapped 20 plus years ago with single foot guides and they are all just fine and never has an issue with pull out on any of them and I have fished the @#$%& out of them and still do.
add a little more tension on you next wrap it can only help and if it doesn't work it is just one wrap right ?


if you look at the different guides sets offered in today s market place Artus have a sculpted foot that will keep the guide from pulling out the ring lock runner fly guides have a straight tapered foot. a switch of brand will solve the issue

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 08:12AM

Ben this is a great ides. The Forhan Lockc or not - depending on who you talk to does or doesnt' matter, lol. I personally do not have an issue with guides beig pulled out - my issue is teh guides get knocked loose side to side. NEver from fishing, always from transport. This happened when I Flocked as well as when I did not. One way to prevent t hat was to use smaller SF guides, but on SW rods you have no chcoice to use 8's in some instances. HAving a smalltang on teh back of teh guide foot would probably reduce or eliminat that from happening. I don't think that will ever happen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 08:32AM

Hi Matt, thanks for the tips. sounds like you did a real good job on the spinning rod..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 09:52AM

Ben, I sent you an email showing locking wraps on two KR guides. Hope it is of some help.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 10:28AM

Ben,
I see what you mean about the KT guides and the base design of the guide:

[www.mudhole.com]

But, if you want to do a locking wrap on this guide and deal with both of the up links from the foot of the guide, it is simplicity itself.

As you near the end of the wrap, grab the thread and pull about a foot or 24 inches of thread off your thread spool and hold the thread in your hand. Then, thread the thread through the loop and around one loop, and over to the other loop and thread it through that loop. Finish that wrap and repeat a second time. Then, do about 3 wraps past the end of the foot and your wraps, and put the end of the thread through your pull thread, which you laid in place before starting the locking wrap on the non foot side of the blank, pull tight and you have the wrap done. It only take about an additional minute to do the double vertical locking wrap, since you have to snip the thread to free the end of the thread to execute the wrap.

But certainly no big deal, and if you like a locking wrap on these guides, by all means do it.

p.s..
The only tricky thing with this process is that you need to maintain thread tension and orientation with your hand, rather than relying on the thread stand or carriage to maintain the tension on the guide being wrapped.

But, since I don't use a thread carriage or thread stand to maintain tension on metallic thread when I do trim wraps, I am comfortable with the process.

Good luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2018 10:31AM by roger wilson.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: toes should have heels
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: January 08, 2018 11:37AM

ok Roger! that sounds like a good idea..i will try that but i need to get some guides.lol. the thread should have a good hold on the guide and keep it from moving side to side..have you tried it yet..you may be able to use just two wraps on most guides.

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster