This winter, I'll have an inordinate amount of free time on my hands for the first time in eons and I want to rewrap my favourite rod, an original Helium LTA 7' MF. Just about the only thing I ever have tied onto this rod is a weightless fluke with a Steez/SV105 spool. I want to go with a lower profile guides set, but I need it to pass a 20# braid to 10# leader knot, likely an Alberto 90% of the time (unless I get ambitious and tie an FG...). I'm going to do a simple spiral. Also, I would really like the running guides to be tangle free somehow. Is there a way to achieve these goals without going with double foot guides the whole way and/or spending a trillion dollars....? I have a few rods with Alconites and like them, except that the single foot running guides still have a tendency to tangle line between the bottom half of the guide and the foot/blank. I'm not going to be using titanium frames, stainless is fine for me. So, I think I'd like to have 9 guides plus the tip. What should I use for the stripper? Will a set of size 5 or 5.5 runners be sufficient to pass that knot?

I'm sure Minima's will get mentioned, I just don't like them much though...

Thanks in advance for your advice and help, I appreciate all the knowledge and experience on this board.
Adam

a good option Fuji K-Series Double-Foot Casting & Spinning Guides Model KW
and these for runners Fuji K-Series Single-Foot Running Guides Model KT
I would do a 16 or a 12 for a stripper then followed by a 10 or an 8 and 5.5 for runners

The best day to be alive is always tomorrow !!
Think out side the box when all else fails !!!
Wi.

I would use a size 10KW a size 5.5kW followed by size 5 or 4.5 KB/KT runners. Use the new Fuji corrosion control stainless steel Alconite K guide, they are the same price as the older Alconite K series guides, plus you can get a matching tip top with a size 5 ring. These are all tangle free guides. I pass an FG knot with no problems down to a size 4 runner., So a size 5 or 4.5 runner will be fine. Since the guides will be on the bottom of the rod 9 guides will be fine.
Norm.

Why are you guys not recommending the KR casting stripper guide? I have used it with KB's and KT's a lot, love the rods.

So I would go with the KR then 3 KB's, the rest KT's. The KR is a 6, after that use all the same size, whatever you choose. I would go 5's to have the least problem with knots. This setup makes great rods.

The set up I would use (and I have many times) would be all Fuji your choice RV 6 or KW 6 followed by a KB 5 then (4) KB 4 or KB 4.5s and (3) KT 4 or 4.5s near the tip, nine total and a tip top that is a half size larger than your smallest ring size. example; 4mm running guide with a 4.5mm tip top. There is no reason to step the guides down after your striping guides, I just use 3 different sized guides for the whole guide train. I have not found any advantage to a guide smaller than 4mm. If you think your knot is going to hang up on a 4mm ring then go to a 4.5mm running guides. I have not had any issues with the knot getting stuck in the guide with a Uni in the sizes you have stated in 4mm rings. I have built with the CC frame Fujis and I like them, just hope they are as advertised for corrosion resistance. Not sure what the advantage would be to using a 10mm or even a 12mm stripper guide unless you are putting it very close to the reel. I am mostly using a 6mm ring as the stripping guide about 21" to 22" from the reel level wind using a reel like a Shimano Core 50mg on a 7' rod.

Micheal if you are talking about the Fuji RV6 guide, they only come in a titanium frame and Adam stated he did not want to use titanium guides. The KW guides are considered part of the KR concept. The KW10 is the same height at the the bottom of the ring as the RV6. Before the RV6 came out the KW10 was the recommended size for a Fuji KR casting rod build. The height of the stripper guide helps keep the line off the blank when casting. I have replaced many low profile strippers (size 6 or smaller) on commercially built micro rods and the users noticed longer and smoother casts after replacement. The KW10 stripper is placed at a point on the rod where weight is of little to no consequence.
Norm

Is there a way to see what the inside diameter of the different guide sizes and materials is...? Or, for comparisons sake, are all the rings the same thickness from one size guide to the next? I have Alconite guides on my Tatula rods I can measure to get a better idea of the inside diameter of the guides.

It looks like a size 10 KW, followed by a size 6 KB, then 6-7 size 5 KB's to a 5.5 tip would be a good starting point. Since this will be a simple spiral, what should I use for my bumper guide? Should I go with something really small, or should I put the 6 KB there...?

I’d use the size 6, for no other reason than to just keep things symmetrical in size. It is small and low profile enough to do the job without looking out of kilter.
Norm

So, 10KW stripper, 2x 6KB (bumper and second guide), then 5KB's to the tip (probably 7 of them), and a 5.5 tip. What would be best for the tip...?

I would use a size 5 ring tip top, They were hard to find (so were the size 5.5) but the new Fuji Corrosion Control KR guides have matching tip tops in size 5, as well as other sizes. As far as the bumper guide, you could use a smaller size if you wish, I just like a more balanced look. Could also do a three guide spiral, 0, 60, and 120 degrees to 180 degrees. It also works very well, with no changes in a normal guide layout or guide numbers. I have tried the simple spiral as well as other types of spirals, and I find little if any difference in performance between them. Mock up your rod and test cast using different spirals and see what works best for you. Experimention is the only way to gain informed knowledge and experience.
Norm

Just an explanation of why. On smaller guides like 4mm or 4.5mm I like to go up 1/2 size to help any knot from hanging up at the tip and assist the more free passage of knots. I have not seen a difference in casting or catching. I think 5mm is sufficient for just about any knot with line up to 30lbs braid. The Fuji RV 6 was first only introduced in this size and recommended for "KR concept Micro guide running trains". To quote Fuji it was said;

Welcome to a new idea for KR CONCEPT strippers on casting rods! This unique reverse stripper is the result of careful research into the interaction between small pawl guides on baitcasting reels and the size and height of the first guide (stripper) on a casting rod. The KR CONCEPT goal of faster, smoother line control is evident as soon as you make a cast with the RV. Light weight and perfectly sized to work with any low profile baitcasting reel. Size 6 only. From Fuji Website: [anglersresource.net]

I believe this was after the introduction of the KW guides with the 10mm ring being suggested as the stripper. The RV 6 is only offered in a titanium frame which will set you back $10.50 from Mudhole. I personally like, on a 7 foot and longer rod the LC 6mm as a stripper (I am a little upset that they discontinued this guide in a titanium frame), I like the height of the frame and it looks cool. I have had issues with a size 10 or larger ring on spiral wraps with un-even spooling. This is why I put the stripper at 0° and I also like 0°, 60°, 120°, 180° set up, although it is not a simple spiral it seems I can keep the line off the blank and in more of a straight line with a little tweaking. I bet Jim likes all this talk about Fuji guides. This can also be done with other guide brands but I am just more familiar with Fuji.

Norman , I realize the KR is titanium framed, but with guides of the size of the runners, who can tell the difference in appearance between TI and SS? They mix fine, and the KR is not that expensive. I agree weight is not an issue. The KR looks cooler, too. :-)

I agree the RV does look cool! Now have two color choices titanium and black titanium, but only with Sic or Torzite rings. Have not tried the black titanium yet. Still a Sic RV6 is almost 3X the price of an Alconite KW10.. Both the RV6 and KW10 give excellent performance. it all depends on what you want and how much you want to spend. The choice is yours.
Norm

I appreciate all the options gentlemen, thank you! Looks like I have some deciding to do... probably going to be budget-based at this point, but maybe not :-D We'll see. I'll keep this thread updated with my final decision and the build once I get going on it.

Don't lose a lot of sleep about that first guide, or any of the others , either. Rods have been catching fish and casts have been long way before all the guides we've been discussing were born. But it's fun considering all the options, isn't it?

You're right, it sure is a lot of fun. I'm really going to enjoy this project, reviving this rod is going to be very satisfying!

KW 6 versus LC 6 for the stripper guide; any significant difference in line handling here, specifically when a simple spiral is in play...?

I think I just might go with black stainless, which then raises the question about the wrap colour. I'm only going to be doing a single color, any suggestions? The blank isn't painted except for the labelling near the fore grip (which is a bright metallic blue, white, and silver). I'll take some pictures of it tomorrow if that'll help.

So this is what I think in like to go with, what do you guys think?

Butt guide: LC6 x1 (blcag6)
Bumper and runners: KB5 x3, KB4 x5 (bkbag)
Tip top: BFCAT4.5 x1 (bfcat4.5)

I think the black guides will look slick, and I'll probably go with straight blacks wraps for simplicity sake. Let me know what you think. Thanks!